From My Email Bag --Retired Lt. col. Allen West on Ft. Hood and US Political Correctness:
Notice the emboldened paragraphs in particular:Allen West on Fort Hood Massacre
November 7, 2009
The following is a statement released by Retired Lt. Col. Allen West:
This past Thursday 13 American Soldiers were killed and another 30 wounded at a horrific mass shooting at US Army installation, Ft Hood Texas . As I watched in horror and then anger I recalled my two years of final service in the Army as a Battalion Commander at Ft Hood, 2002-2004.
My wife and two daughters were stunned at the incident having lived on the post in family housing.
A military installation, whether it is Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, or Coast Guard, is supposed to be a safe sanctuary for our Warriors and their families. It is intended to provide a home whereby our "Band of Brothers and Sisters" can find solace and bond beyond just the foxhole but as family units.
A military installation is supposed to be a place where our Warriors train for war, to serve and protect our Nation.
On Thursday, 5 November 2009 Ft Hood became a part of the battlefield in the war against Islamic totalitarianism and state sponsored terrorism.
There may be those who feel threatened by my words and would even recommend they not be uttered. To those individuals I say step aside because now is not the time for cowardice. Our Country has become so paralyzed by political correctness that we have allowed a vile and determined enemy to breach what should be the safest place in America , an Army post.
We have become so politically correct that our media is more concerned about the stress of the shooter, Major Nidal Malik Hasan. The misplaced benevolence intending to portray him as a victim is despicable. The fact that there are some who have now created an entire new classification called; "pre-virtual vicarious Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)" is unconscionable.
This is not a "man caused disaster". It is what it is, an Islamic jihadist attack.
We have seen this before in 2003 when a SGT Hasan of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) threw hand grenades and opened fire into his Commanding Officer's tent in Kuwait . We have seen the foiled attempt of Albanian Muslims who sought to attack Ft Dix, NJ. Recently we saw a young convert to Islam named Carlos Bledsoe travel to Yemen, receive terrorist training, and return to gun down two US Soldiers at a Little Rock, Arkansas Army recruiting station. We thwarted another Islamic terrorist plot in North Carolina which had US Marine Corps Base, Quantico as a target.
What have we done with all these prevalent trends? Nothing.
What we see are recalcitrant leaders who are refusing to confront the issue, Islamic terrorist infiltration into America , and possibly further into our Armed Services. Instead we have a multiculturalism and diversity syndrome on steroids.
Major Hasan should have never been transferred to Ft Hood, matter of fact he should have been Chaptered from the Army. His previous statements, poor evaluation reports, and the fact that the FBI had him under investigation for jihadist website posting should have been proof positive.
However, what we have is a typical liberal approach to find a victim, not the 13 and 30 Soldiers and Civilian, but rather the poor shooter. A shooter who we are told was a great American, who loved the Army and serving his Nation and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) stating that his actions had nothing to do with religious belief.
We know that Major Hasan deliberately planned this episode; he did give away his possessions. He stood atop a table in the confined space of the Soldier Readiness Center shouting "Allahu Akhbar", same chant as the 9-11 terrorists and those we fight against overseas in the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters of operation.
No one in leadership seems willing to sound the alarm for the American people; they are therefore complicit in any future attacks. Our Congress should suspend the insidious action to vote on a preposterous and unconstitutional healthcare bill and resolve the issue of "protecting the American people".
The recent incidents in Dearborn Michigan , Boston Massachusetts , Dallas Texas , and Chicago Illinois should bear witness to the fact that we have an Islamic terrorism issue in America . And don't have CAIR call me and try to issue a vanilla press statement; they are an illegitimate terrorist associated organization which should be disbanded.
We have Saudi Arabia funding close to 80% of the mosques in the United States , one right here in South Florida, Pompano Beach . Are we building churches and synagogues in Saudi Arabia ? Are "Kaffirs" and "Infidels" allowed travel to Mecca ?
So much for peaceful coexistence.
Saudi Arabia is sponsoring radical Imams who enter into our prisons and convert young men into a virulent Wahabbist ideology..one resulting in four individuals wanting to destroy synagogues in New York with plastic explosives. Thank God the explosives were dummy. They are sponsoring textbooks which present Islamic centric revisionist history in our schools.
We must recognize that there is an urgent need to separate the theo-political radical Islamic ideology out of our American society. We must begin to demand surveillance of suspected Imams and mosques that are spreading hate and preaching the overthrow of our Constitutional Republic..that speech is not protected under First Amendment, it is sedition and if done by an American treason. There should not be some 30 Islamic terrorist training camps in America that has nothing to do with First Amendment, Freedom of Religion. The Saudis are not our friends and any American political figure who believes such is delusional.
When tolerance becomes a one way street it certainly leads to cultural suicide. We are on that street. Liberals cannot be trusted to defend our Republic, because their sympathies obviously lie with their perceived victim, Major Nidal Malik Hasan.
I make no apologies for these words, and anyone angered by them, please, go to Ft Hood and look into the eyes of the real victims. The tragedy at Ft Hood Texas did not have to happen. Consider now the feelings of those there and on every military installation in the world. Consider the feelings of the Warriors deployed into combat zones who now are concerned that their loved ones at home are in a combat zone.
Ft Hood suffered an Islamic jihadist attack, stop the denial, and realize a simple point.
The reality of your enemy must become your own.
Steadfast and Loyal,
Lieutenant Colonel Allen B West (US Army, Ret)
"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life."--the Bible
37 comments:
Prominent atheists like Harris, Hitchens, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali continue to speak about the dangers of Islam.
Yes, I know, they are against ALL religions. And those lacking in all reason and objectivity see Christianity as being dangerous like Islam.
Christianity has been, and has the potential to be, as dangerous as Islam. Any ideology based on dogma, faith, and revealed truth has the potential for violence and oppression, including secular ones.
No --Christianity with the Bible applied does not have the potential to be like Islam or Communism or any other ism or ology that is dangerous.
There is too much love, forgiveness, mercy, grace, fruits of the spirit, the love chapter --the Ten C's --too much there to prevent REAL Christians from being dangerous and violent.
As for oppression, the opponents of Christianity are afraid Christians would outlaw abortion (except in case of life of mother) and define marriage as it has always been defined. That's pretty scary, isn't it --compared to Islamic terrorism! Women would have to use birth control or become mothers or be chaste! Tsk Tsk. And homosexuals couldn't marry in the future as they cannot marry each other now. How awful! How oppressed we are if we cannot have gay marriage in America!
Religious fundamentalism is one of the most dangerous elements in today's society. Religious fundamentalists cause more deaths, pain, hurt and anger than any other group of people on earth.
I'm not sure that the Muslims have caused more death than the atheists as communists.
for sure, the Christians have done more good than either of the above groups --especially in modern times.
I don't say that to boast of works personally--but to defend Christianity against scurrilous and dishonest attacks.
Muslims where i live never ever bother attacking or try bombing any of us.They are pretty peaceful folks here.
No overseas terrorist groups are able to start disharmony happening here, the ground they have to work with is not fallow or been ploughed up by bigoted christians hell bent on converting even at the cost of causing much disharmony and death.We have no large amount of religious right suppling money to bigoted christian politicians,to give them power to meddle and wager with our posibilities of peace overseas.
We never had a religious christian radical extremist like George Bush,meddling with money and power in countries of Islam ...And here religious fundementalists of any type get quickly put it their place,if they start causing to much trouble..
The best thing the U.S.A could ever do for possibilitys of a better future,is start slowly purging itself of the many extreme religious fanatics which includes the christian extremists.
Until such a thing happens from time to time war will keep erupting somewhere for people of the U.S.A.Even Christian religious fanatics just cannot help themselves from poking their noses in sooner or later somewhere, into converting people in other countries ...They dont mind if these countries happen to be muslim...All they care about mostly is controling and indoctrinating others with their faith,like a nasty intolerant malignant cancerous growth.
If folks in the U.S.A wish to have continued episodes like Fort Hood,then religiously bigoted biased one sided opinions of the christian extreme are what they should continue to keep listening to.And the tit for tat paybacks between faith beliefs,will simply keep continuing.
Its all very well making a point of reminding people somebodys cry was "Allahu Akhbar" which is god is great from a muslim perspective,but its just continued stupidity if the christian cry of the religious right trying to convert everyone is simply discounted at the same time.
Gandolf,
It seems the only religion not covered by political correctness in calling names and making accusations is Christianity.
We cannot by ourselves "convert" anyone. That's done by the calling to you of the Holy Spirit. We are simply the messengers.
Yes, we testify to our beliefs because that is what Jesus commanded us to do in the Great Commission: "Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."
It is our responsibility as Christians to tell all about Jesus, but it is the responsibility of the one being told to either tell us they are not interested in hearing us and slamming the door, or to listen and see if their hearts are convicted by the Holy Spirit, showing them that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
We are not perfect and not everyone has the gift of evangelism, but we all have gifts God has given us to use to advance His Kingdom.
We believe so strongly that God wants everyone to be saved and have eternal fellowship with Him that we simply must tell the good news of the New Testament.
Jesus said people from every tribe will be saved before He returns again. We have no idea when that will be, but signs point to it being soon. Time is short and the harvest is ready if we but tell others of the love and grace of God, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
Every tribe means every religion. No one will be excluded for believing in a false god. While we are alive we have the opportunity to take the free gift, given so willingly on the cross at Calvary, that washes away our sins and brings our souls and spirits alive. It fills a void.
You call us fanatics. Are you a sports fan? If so, you are also a fanatic, except for that sport.
We also live regular lives, continue to disappoint God, but we are forgiven from the day we accepted Christ as our Savior.
It may not be fun to hear if you do not accept Jesus as God's Son Who died and shed His blood that your sins might be washed away and forgotten, He rose again and sits on the right hand of the Father, that you will go to hell, but it's the simple truth.
Instead of focusing on the punishment try to focus on the love God has for mankind to sacrifice His Only Begotten Son on a cross that you might have eternal life instead of eternal death. But eternal death does not mean you cease to exist. You will be aware of your surroundings and will have no care for anyone around you if you can see them because your torment will be so great, and it will never, ever stop.
Instead you can be living in a mansion in heaven where the finest gold never yet beheld by us is used for asphalt to pave the streets.
It's your choice and we tell you out of love and concern for you.
Have any of you who profess to be atheists really looked at a professed Christian's face? I mean, really looked at it.
There is a glow, a happiness even in times of distress because we know all of this is just temporary and what awaits us in the afterlife is so much better than this life. It won't even compare.
Why do we have this peace that passes understanding? Why are we calm in the midst of turmoil? Because we believe in the Only True God, Abba, Yahweh, the Great I Am. There is no other God. None before Him and none after Him. He is the creator of all things known and yet unknown to man.
Because Jesus was incarnated as both man and God He knows our feelings from personal experience. When we grieve He grieves. When we are joyful He is joyful. When we go through trying times He is there to walk beside us and even carry us.
I have not the vocabulary to properly praise my wonderful God, but one day He will give me that vocabulary and I will be very content to praise Him all day, every day because He is worthy of that praise.
I don't know what other Christians want, but I know that neither I nor any Christian I know is interested in taking over this government and making it a theocracy. I would love to see a revival in this country so we could get our blessing back, but we have rejected God so much that He has removed our blessing and that's why our economy is the way it is, and the economy is everything in this world.
Unlike what Denis says, we are not trying to force all but Jews out of Israel so Jesus can return. Jesus said even He didn't know when He would return, but only His Father which is in heaven.
Man cannot force God's plan, no matter how hard we try. We Christians go about our daily lives just as anyone else would. We cook, clean, do laundry, enjoy our families. We're just like you except we are forgiven.
Nothing makes me happier than to hear and sing along with hymns that praise our Lord because each of those hymns has a message just as important as the ones preached in church on Sundays and Wednesdays.
Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear My voice I will come into Him and will sup with him and he with me." What a beautiful promise! And the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are incapable of lying.
I have too many things to do before I see Jesus to be angry at anyone or try to cause trouble.
I may differ politically, but that's my right as a citizen of this country. It is also my duty to support candidates who uphold Christian values such as not supporting abortion. I am morally obligated to vote for that candidate, just as you feel morally obligated to support your candidates because they reflect your beliefs.
I always end my prayers with a prayer for true peace in Jerusalem because I know that will happen only when Jesus returns, not for the Rapture, but for his thousand year reign before the final judgment. Complete peace and harmony for a thousand years, judgment where Satan will finally be bound and cast into hell with the key thrown away and peace and love for eternity.
Does that sound hateful? Does that sound like I want to overthrow the government? I don't think so.
Gandolf- Excellent summary of the problem we Americans face with these radical fundamentalist christians we live with. Your historical points are well taken and spot-on.
You will notice, however, that the fundamentalist christians who crawl through this blog only defend their radical agenda and attack any of us who point out their radicalism, bigotry, righteousness and hate.
They cannot see clearly because they are up to their earlobes in this malodourous muck in which they dewll.
Not only that, but they suffer from various mental problems like severe OCD and bipolar disorder. Thus, any debate here is similar to a debate with a shoe box.
I read an article about Major Hasan's rambling 50 slide presentation. While this statement was not a part of the presentation, the article claimed that Hasan said:
"My allegiance is to the Koran, not to the U.S. Constitution"
In making that statement, Hasan violated his oath to "protect and defend the constitution". If we can allow his religious convictions to trump the constitution, then political correctness has taken over and we don't really have a nation any more. This is dreadfully scary.
If the Koran were as kindly and positive and guiding for good as the Bible, I wouldn't care if his allegiance was to the Koran first --as mine is to the Bible. But this kindness and tolerance and freedom for all to believe as they wish is not the history of very many of the Koran believers.
Barb,
I understand what you are saying for regular citizens but we are talking about a U.S. military officer.
I missed reading this thread! Had traveled to a funeral Saturday when some of you posted here --and had a very busy Sunday.
what a serendipity, Jeanette! That's what you were talking about when you said you felt inspired the other day!
Glad to see you, Gandalf, (from New Zealand) over here where your opinion is welcome, as mine is not at Chuck's! Since Mudrake went there to nip at my heels. AT least he can't get me off my own blog!! At least not yet. When they start to say you can't criticize homosexuality without being convicted for "hate speech," that will be the end of free speech in America and free exercise of religion to speak out on social ills of our generation.
It worries me that if people like Chuck, Mudrake, Microdot and other atheistic bloggers get in charge of the internet, that any blogger, any site that isn't "Politically correct" about homosexuality, abortion, politics, religion, etc. COULD be shut down. Because the LEFT has NO tolerance for any negative discussion of homosexuality on their own sites--they liken it to racism, deluded as they are about causes for homosexuality.
For Kathy: Even a military officer might have higher allegiance to God and Bible than to gov't --but our gov't doesn't typically command us or military to violate a Christian conscience --except for those who take the C.O. position against all war action and they aren't forced to be military.
For Muslims, their gov't is usually SO entwined with their religion that the Mullahs/Imams/religious leaders are entwined with the gov't leaders --and part of their religion is NOT religious freedom but intolerance to other religions. I think they have a goal of Islamic rule everywhere.
We believe in a reign by Jesus Christ when He returns, but I don't think we will have anything to do with bringing this about. God will do it.
A military officer of Islamic faith is suspect --and should be subject to profiling (as Palin said) --and watched for terrorist loyalties and connections.
I'd want to know a Muslim and scrutinize him AWFULLY well to let him be in military --to choose him to be on our home land security teams--as Obama did with two Muslims.
However, I think it's hard to feel that you really DO know a Muslim because I don't think it's against Islam to use deception on unbelievers --honesty doesn't have the same priority as it does for Christians. Seems I recall something from the Koran about it being OK to befriend your enemy--before you stab him in the back. Christianity says "love your enemies." "Forgive them." Which is really the motivation behind some Political correctness --- a desire to be kind and inoffensive to those who differ from us.
But PC overlooks the right of Christians to proclaim repentance for sin and truth about sin --and barely recognizes anything AS sin --except Biblical Christianity applied to our votes and social concerns! THAT's evil, to a PC liberal.
Gandalf The best thing the U.S.A could ever do for possibilitys of a better future,is start slowly purging itself of the many extreme religious fanatics which includes the christian extremists.
Until such a thing happens from time to time war will keep erupting somewhere for people of the U.S.A.
uh, just what are you recommending for the Christian extremists? What is the nature of this purge? Sounds Hitlerian to me!!! You sound like Mudrake, wanting to round up religious conservatives for concentration camp.
Is it really more dangerous to preach Christ's resurrection and His offer of heaven to all who believe --than to preach, as you do, that we should purge our country of religious conservatives??? That's a holocaust for at least 1/3 of the U.S. And besides, the Christian church always proliferates during the bloodshed and persecution of martyrs.
You probably don't know that it's Lebanese Christians who are evangelizing the Middle east through their TV station broadcast 24/7 in 3 or 4 languages? Parents write the station, saying they love the positive messages for kids and find it more wholesome than middle-east TV. Something off putting about televised public beheadings I suppose. I fear for their safety, but they do have a website --SAT 7 television.
So. Koreans were terrorized by kidnapping when they took a Christian mission medical team to Afghanistan, wanting to be helpful. I think one or two were killed? not sure.
German Christians took a mission team to Afghanistan --and the two American girls with them were kidnapped for a time.
And here, religious fundementalists of any type get quickly put in their place,if they start causing too much trouble..
Evangelical Christianity is all over the world. ARe you saying that evangelicals cannot witness of their faith in New Zealand? by law? Since you say preaching our faith "bent on converting" causes trouble.
It's not Christian missionaries who caused war in the middle east --it was Muslims against Muslims ---and the persecutors in Somalia and India are Muslim and Hindu groups against Jews and/or Christians.
So who really causes the trouble, Gandalf?
Barb -->"Evangelical Christianity is all over the world. ARe you saying that evangelicals cannot witness of their faith in New Zealand? by law? Since you say preaching our faith "bent on converting" causes trouble."
Hi Barb.
Here in NZ the extreme faithful folks dont get much of a chance to multiply.Here they know its in their best interest not to be known to be anti gay people etc.
There is a public uproar! if it becomes public knowledge that some extreme group is being intolerant and causing disharmony.Our society happens to prefer and enjoy as much peacefulness as is humanly possible! ...Extreme religious beliefs are not made to feel welcome when they threaten our right of peacefulness
So that means our leaders never ever get a chance of getting into power in part through being financed by a certian type of extreme religious backing.Public distaste for such a situation just wont allow it to ever likely be pulled off!.
Which mean our leaders do not often try meddling in politics with any religious undertones,strategic moves overseas do not ever include entering into any realms of positioning for possiblities for religious coversions.
Barb -->"What is the nature of this purge? Sounds Hitlerian to me!!! You sound like Mudrake, wanting to round up religious conservatives for concentration camp."
L.o.L .... No ...Purge means basically cleanse or purify or "to free",to rid of whatever is impure or undesirable.
The society of NZ finds religious extremism undesirable,why? .. well even for one good reason we know its very dangerous.In gets involved in politics and starts meddling in areas where beliefs differ.
We NZers like more peace rather than danger
equals = our politicians are pro peace . Negative of any pro faith type atitude or direction.
equals = we dont have problems with Muslims etc,for them to ever feel they have need of wanting to kill us.
Which means majority of our NZ society has purged "itself" of religious extremism....No need for any nazi or concentration camps!
All it takes is for the general public to decide do we prefer religious bigots that end up causing us war and bloodshed of our brothers and much pain and can ALSO only help with broken economys ?.
Or would we prefer to move towards more harmony and peace and prosperity etc.
Its not really any rocket science is it Barb.Its 2+2=4 kind of equation
Even though i dont believe god/s i still believe some wisdoms exist within spiritual books also,and yes sometimes ive found its kinda true you do sometimes reap some of what you sow.
Barb i noticed how you tried to go off into this big explanation and excuses of how supposedly the korans not as good as the bible or muslims are worse than christians etc blah blah blah ...Or its actually the "Lebanese Christians who are evangelizing the Middle east" rah rah rah.
Which is turning a blind eye to the many other evangelicals that honestly do also move on infiltrating influencing and converting where ever possible.In my opinion its just simply being prepared to be dishonest and deceitful.You are standing on grounds of false pride and arrogance and selfrightousness, even denying the well known that "all can fall short"!!!
Barb its a simple choice folks of U.S.A need to make .Without forever beating around the bush like a puppy chasing its own tail! thats what it comes down to really.. Admit yes! "any type" of extreme religious belief is very very dangerous and undesirable whatever type it be !
Or keep reaping the same rewards for that what is being sown.
"You call us fanatics. Are you a sports fan? If so, you are also a fanatic, except for that sport."
Hi Jeanette.. When rugby becomes to religiously dangerious,dont worry i wont be supporting it.
When it gets to a stage where it starts being faithfully forceful in taking over and converting everyone else to the game....
It might then even start to compare a little slightly to the danger of faith of god/s.
Jeanette -->"Instead of focusing on the punishment try to focus on the love God has for mankind to sacrifice His Only Begotten Son on a cross that you might have eternal life instead of eternal death"
Nice sermon Jeanette but did it ever occur to you ... That people are actually being sacrificed yesterday today and tomorrow for god beliefs by the thousands year after year in wars and disharmony brought about by the religious extreme of this world ?... Did it ever occur to you this "supposed" eternal life dream of yours is (being paid for) by the "factual" blood and guts of many human lives in the present time ?.Did it occur to you "my children" and ever my childrens children will quite possibly also in part, be paying for any polution and outfalls caused by war brought on by religiously motivated wars and folks who have dreams of some afterlife for themselves.
Jeanette sure i do realize most every christian most likely do mean well.They think they is being helpful and caring
But hey the road to the hell that we live in with all these wars etc, is likely to be paved with many folks with good intentions.
Sadly good intentions dont allways equal intelligent educated decisions.Or for that matter any real well thought through honesty of factually really caring
Kathy said... "If we can allow his religious convictions to trump the constitution, then political correctness has taken over and we don't really have a nation any more. This is dreadfully scary."
Hi Kathy.
Christian convictions would never likely ever be used to trump any laws or constitution hmmm ? .. Christians the white lambs of this earth .... The rightous, unlikely to ever be sinners of this planet earth
Yes let the rightous christians be the one to step forward and take their rightful place of casting the first stone .. hmmm?
mud_rake said... "Gandolf- Excellent summary of the problem we Americans face with these radical fundamentalist christians we live with. Your historical points are well taken and spot-on."
Hey Mud .
Well its not about judging anyone,its more about being extremly honest.Sometime specially with people you like very much, you even have to be honest about some things that you might wish you really even never really had to.
Im sure there is plenty many folks from elswhere could be helpful to us NZers, by being just straight up to us about it.And i would hope they would do so, if it really needs to be done.Sometimes things are easier to see,when looking from the outside.
Gandalf, I think world history clearly demonstrates that not all wars are about religion --but many have been about power, desires to dominate, greed for resources and land, simple hatreds between "us" and "them."
Why did Japan bomb Pearl harbor? Because we were a Christian nation? I don't think so!
Why and how did Soviet Russia under Stalin kill 50 million --at least?
Why did Hitler kill the Jews? It wasn't because he was a Christian.
Why did barbaric tribes have continual rivalry and warfare.
It's really not been about religion as much as about sin, greed, hate, violent tendencies as a means of control.
So you think it's "extreme" to preach/teach the Bible? as on tv and radio and in conventions and churches and religious schools? Ten C's, Love and forgiveness, compassion, generosity, encouraging traditional family structure and strength and sobriety? And resisting NEW LAWS to redefine marriage and allow women to kill their offspring for any reason whatsoever?? (when they could've prevented pregnancy in the first place --when people want to adopt their babies --when babies are full human beings with a right to life?)
There is a story about the stone age-like Auca Indians in So. America killing the missionaries who arrived by plane --you would think it was the message of Christianity they hated --but it wasn't that at all. All outsiders were suspect. But seems there was a rivalry about a girl and somebody who had killed someone in a neighboring tribe --and this guy went out to prove something by murdering the missionaries. Or he was just in a bad mood and had a very bad day--I don't recall the details --but it wasn't the Christian message per se that got them martyred.
You are right that people are dying daily for their God-beliefs --by stonings, beheadings, other means of death and imprisonment --Muslims, Christians, Jews --but the Jews and Muslims really aren't fighting about religion, are they? Muslims do not believe in religious freedom historically --in any land they govern. Christians do.
All of this hatred for Christianity is about homosexuality and abortion--which were discouraged in our culture until 1973 for abortion --and since the AIDS epidemic in the US for homosexuality. Ironic, both.
Both are counterproductive --literally --anti-children.
Of course, you believe that homosexuality is inborn and cannot be changed, like one's race --but I believe you and they are mistaken. I believe all sex outside marriage can be avoided --it starts in the mind.
But I do believe, as you and the Bible put it, that ALL have sinned and come short of God's glory-- ALL of us are sinners who need to repent. It's not about Christians being more righteous --though God calls them to make that effort --and He does help them not to hate and sin when they yield to Holy Spirit's control. We go to church every Sunday to hear the minister TEACH us to be righteous --to motivate us --to worship God and hear Him through His Holy Spirit-inspired servant with that gift.
Gandalf Which is turning a blind eye to the many other evangelicals that honestly do also move on infiltrating influencing and converting where ever possible.In my opinion its just simply being prepared to be dishonest and deceitful.You are standing on grounds of false pride and arrogance and selfrightousness, even denying the well known that "all can fall short"!!!
I didn't mean to turn a blind eye to evangelism by American missionaries by pointing out that Christian missionaries come from WITHIN countries. You need to visit VoiceoftheMartyrs.com
Their latest magazine tells about a young north vietnamese pastor, converted through Christian short wave radio broadcast as a teen, who is preaching and converting north vietnamese, going house to house, establishing house churches, as the authorities pursue him to beat him up.
There is Pastor Bike in China (he rides a bike) whom the authorities locked up for the Olympics so he wouldn't be passing out Christian lit, a story that made national news. And many other martyrs for Christianity throughout the world. I bet you can google "Pastor Bike in China."
The more a gov't tries to oppress Christians who share their faith, the more heinous that gov't is in their repression of all liberty.
I suspect you have a very active evangelical presence in N.Z. to influence these strong negative feelings you have! Probably relatives???
YOu talk, Gandalf, as though Christian evangelicals FORCE conversions. They do not.
And I should've included repenting as something we are urged to do via a Christian sermon. We are reminded by the Holy Spirit daily of our "falling shorts." (pun intended)
But we don't live under a heavy yoke of guilt as Bible-believers --unless we are really persistent in unrepented sin.
Barb,
While I believe that America is a Christian nation. I don't think you understand the distinction I was making. As people of faith, we have a responsibility to maintain the faith that our nation is moving in the right direction in the long run, regardless of temporary setbacks. Our allegiance is to the oath we are given, not to postmodernist values, i.e. oath that we want. We are all sinners and we all can fall under the influence of a false prophet. Just because somebody says that they are a Christian or that they uphold biblical values doesn't mean that they will do so faithfully. If an officer of the military shuns the oath for whatever reason, he should be removed.
While I believe that America is a Christian nation. I don't think you understand the distinction I was making. As people of faith, we have a responsibility to maintain the faith that our nation is moving in the right direction in the long run, regardless of temporary setbacks.
I've never thought people of faith had a duty to believe that the nation is moving in the right direction, if, in fact, it seems the nation is NOT moving in the right direction with its infanticide, immorality, family disintegration, indebtedness, etc. We are following the pattern of Rome --hopefully not to our destruction, but it's possible, IMHO. But if you mean we should be loyal to our nation against malicious enemies, yes, I agree with that.
Our allegiance is to the oath we are given, not to postmodernist values, i.e. oath that we want.
As Christians, we have no quarrel with an oath to defend the constitution, with its stated respect for life and liberty. But a Muslim who believes "kill the infidel" and that Muslims should some day dominate, by force or majority rule, and enshrine their religion by law, then they can't honestly say the oath to the Constitution and the USA.
We are all sinners and we all can fall under the influence of a false prophet. Just because somebody says that they are a Christian or that they uphold biblical values doesn't mean that they will do so faithfully. If an officer of the military shuns the oath for whatever reason, he should be removed.
Yes to all 3 statements. Did the Ft. Hood shooter shun the oath?
Barb did you know pushy missionarys were even involved in the history of Japan as far back as the 17th century,same thing happened back then the ugly head of faith caused disharmony.And besides that even original Japanese belief suggested the japanese race started out from somebody who was supposedly a sun god or godess or something.
Religions have always causes problems Barb.Hell even your mate jesus knew full well religion was like a sword sent to split and divide us.
Stalin was a tyrant who was himself schooled and treated badly by religious tyrant school teachers and hassled at school by nasty bigoted sons of priests and clergy.
Religious disharmony and hatered ran deep in the veins of Hitler as well .His father was a drunked and abusive jew who beat him.Hitler later came intouch with christian religious zealots who further poisoned his mind against jews,citing jews as the killer of christ and the reason for all manner of nasty situations ..Turning Hitler into a religious jealot killer himself.
Peace between barbaric tribes have never been helped much by chances of the tribes having special faiths each tribe thinks is better than the others either.
No barb while i agree greed and culture and hate has been a part of the human condition of disharmony,i still say that religious bigotry has played a very big part in the disharmony that has plauged this planet.
Barb -->"The more a gov't tries to oppress Christians who share their faith, the more heinous that gov't is in their repression of all liberty.
I suspect you have a very active evangelical presence in N.Z. to influence these strong negative feelings you have! Probably relatives???"
Our government doesnt need to opress christians or extreme religions,these days the citizens themselve let these religious fanatics know they are very unwelcome.
Yes my family are religious extremes,and they have found they now are mostly very unwelcome in this country and have found they need to try their best to stay hidden away as much as possible.Yes many years ago here in NZ the extreme religious could freely try to convert people etc,but times have changed and now the majority of NZers dislike having religious extremisms in our country.
Like i said we know religion extremes bring countrys bad luck and more war.
Blogger Gandolf said...
Barb did you know pushy missionarys were even involved in the history of Japan as far back as the 17th century,same thing happened back then the ugly head of faith caused disharmony.And besides that even original Japanese belief suggested the japanese race started out from somebody who was supposedly a sun god or godess or something.
Yes, indeedy, man has always inclined to be religious, from the beginning of the human race --because the Creator established a relationship with man. But after the Fall of man, all went awry --and violence was everywhere --and yet, the awareness of power higher than themselves inclined them to want to make up gods out of their imaginations and to appease those gods with sacrifices. It's been universal!
Religions have always causes problems Barb.Hell even your mate jesus knew full well religion was like a sword sent to split and divide us.
But religions have caused no MORE problems than sins --and some religions were very sinful and even Christianity has been damaged for people BY SIN in the people's hearts and actions. The sins of greed and selfishness have caused more violence than simple worship of deities. However, the Bible says that worship of the WRONG THINGS, of SELF and of IDOLS, leads to MORE sin.
Stalin was a tyrant who was himself schooled and treated badly by religious tyrant school teachers and hassled at school by nasty bigoted sons of priests and clergy.
O so Stalin is the church's fault? Well, it is true that hypocrisy in the church (sin) does great damage to children.
Religious disharmony and hatered ran deep in the veins of Hitler as well .His father was a drunked and abusive jew who beat him.Hitler later came intouch with christian religious zealots who further poisoned his mind against jews,citing jews as the killer of christ and the reason for all manner of nasty situations ..Turning Hitler into a religious jealot killer himself.
How did Hitler escape the crematorium then --as a Jew? How did he hide that heritage? I don't think I heard that he was a Jew. Of course, Jews have not followed God when they rejected His Son, the Savior. They are not enlightened by the HOly Spirit. As some professing Christians have not followed Christ and are not enlightened by the Holy Spirit, as well.
Peace between barbaric tribes have never been helped much by chances of the tribes having special faiths each tribe thinks is better than the others either.
But barbaric tribes didn't typically fight over religion. Truth be told, they had wars over property, resources for water and animals, stealing, getting even for crimes against each other.
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No barb while i agree greed and culture and hate has been a part of the human condition of disharmony,i still say that religious bigotry has played a very big part in the disharmony that has plauged this planet.
False religion will do that because it embraces sins, like revenge, honor killings, denial of freedom, etc.--and SIN among people of any faith causes ALL the trouble --not the Christian religion itself, with its values and moral code --which are the very antithesis of sin, violence, evil, cruelty, war, revenge, selfishness, oppression, etc.
Barb said --"The more a gov't tries to oppress Christians who share their faith, the more heinous that gov't is in their repression of all liberty. I suspect you have a very active evangelical presence in N.Z. to influence these strong negative feelings you have! Probably relatives???"
Gandolf says Our government doesnt need to opress christians or extreme religions,these days the citizens themselve let these religious fanatics know they are very unwelcome.
How kind, respectful and tolerant of diversity they are!!! My my!
Yes my family are religious extremes,and they have found they now are mostly very unwelcome in this country and have found they need to try their best to stay hidden away as much as possible.
Good grief! So human rights and freedom of religion and free expression of religion are not features of New Zealand, eh? What will happen to them if they don't hide???
Yes many years ago here in NZ the extreme religious could freely try to convert people etc,but times have changed and now the majority of NZers dislike having religious extremisms in our country.
Just like the terrorist Muslims, I guess, who cannot tolerate the appeal of the Baby Jesus or the Crucified Savior. The Gospel of Christ competes with Islamic ideology--or in the case of N.Z. --competes with secular and atheistic ideology. And both secularism and Islam want to win the ideology competition by violence and/or suppression --rather than letting the ideas have voice and the people have choice.
Like i said we know religion extremes bring countrys bad luck and more war.
On the contrary, religious freedom and protestant Christianity made America the best place in the world to live --and the most powerful and generous nation in the world. But now we are, more and more, embracing YOUR ideology, Gandolf, IN OUR PERSONAL LIFESTYLES WHICH ARE IMMORAL, and thus God may be giving us over to our own demise.
sometimes, hardship brings revival --wherever the Gospel is preached
Barb, I thought I'd leave a small comment so you don't get jumped on about your Hitler not being a Jew remark.
The rumor was that Hitler's paternal grandmother became pregnant with Hitler's father by a Jewish man for whom she worked.
If the rumor is true Hitler would have been 1/4 Jew. He hated Jews, just as Jews are still hated by many people.
Hitler also tried seminary but didn't stick with it for some reason. So did Stalin.
In either case, indications of what the ended up doing in their lives, is that they were never real believers, though that is not my call to make.
Wasn't Stalin a Communist?? and they are atheists. And religion was forbidden, -or at least, the religious were persecuted, repressed.
Many of the holocaust victims in Germany were Christians --like Corrie ten Boom's family.
I recommend the book Marx and Satan by Wurmbrand --who also writes about Hitler in that book. He says, if I recall, that both men showed a very dark, even occultic, satanic side in their writings/poetry/interests, etc. in their youth.
Yes, Stalin was a communist and was an atheist during most of his adult life.
This does not mean he didn't try to go into seminary, but he couldn't get along and left. Apparently he left his faith too.
Remember the Bolshevik Revolution wasn't that long ago (I had a Jewish family friend whose father was a high ranking Bolshevik member, but saw what he was getting into and managed to sell everything and bring his family to the States.)
Stalin ruled from the 30s to the early 50s. He became an atheist just as others become atheists.
Barb --> "Yes, indeedy, man has always inclined to be religious, from the beginning of the human race --because the Creator established a relationship with man."
Yes Barb that is the ancient theory that early uneducated superstitious religious man (asserted),but it lacks greatly in any real decent evidence.
However it is fact uneducated man didnt understand very many things about life.Ancient men believed lightning was being thrown by the gods,they thought that droughts were punishment of gods and they even sacrificed children to try to apease gods.
Its fact ancient folk were superstitious people.
Its fact they all came up with their own differing ideas of the MANY different gods and sometimes neighbouring countries beliefs even mixed.While others more far apart were very different.
But then these many differing beliefs do not point towards --->"because the Creator established a relationship with man"at all.
If the creater had established a relationship with men we should only ever see just the one and only non differing belief.
But no! we dont.We see many differing beliefs that are only "relative" to humans culture and thinking etc.
Evidence suggest it is very likely only myth passed on by ancient superstitious man who we know was superstitious and couldnt even understand where lightning came from. And whos superstitious uneducated thoughts wrongly even concluded the gods had sent things like droughts or hurricanes, and who could not understand evidence of plagues of locusts could actually be correlated with special weather patterns and/or bumper crops or shortage of the locus natural predator that year .Who were so very ignorant they even killed their own children as sacrifices!,crikey! this doesnt honestly sound much like some creator really had any relationship with humans Barb.
Barb -->"Wasn't Stalin a Communist?? and they are atheists. "
Communism is a political system Barb most often ruled by a authoritarian party or by a tyrant like Stalin.
Many atheists vote in democracies .Your suggestion that communists equals atheist is just old deceitful and dishonest propaganda from folks of faith.
Barb and Jeanette sure Stalin id say was atheist but he was also a angry tyrant.And if you read the history of Stalins youth you will find there was religious disharmony between his mother and father over faith belief.Joseph's mother was deeply religious and wanted Stalin to obtain religious type schooling,while his father wanted him to follow something else instead.Causing division and problems within family relations.You will find Stalin was sent to a religious school where the teachers were religious and ended up treating him very badly,so much so that the religious teacher that hounded him the most he even nick named "the black spot"he disliked him so much because he was so very nasty.They even laughed and made fun at his accent in class,and the school was mostly almost full of the children of priests and clergy who treated Stalin like being only lowly scum.Starlins impression and experience of the nastiness of religious attitudes,naturally wasnt very nice simply because religious attitudes honestly and truthfully and factually were just not very nice.
Barb --->"And religion was forbidden, -or at least, the religious were persecuted, repressed."
Barb religion had been a curse even early in Stalins life.Do christians really expect him to have likely wanted to shake christians hands and feel like lovingly throwing them welcoming parties for all those who religious friends had often treated him like scum back at school?.Was he supposed to simply forget that religion caused his parents to argue?.
Hes Stalin not jesus Barb .. Hes human ...He hated religion and had good reasons.
What Stalin did had very little to do with him being atheist.To suggest it had to do with his atheism is to be plain deceitful and overlook the negative influence of religion in his life.
Jeanette -->"The rumor was that Hitler's paternal grandmother became pregnant with Hitler's father by a Jewish man for whom she worked."
Yes Jeanette those rumors where around and there is evidence that he atleast was effected by thoughts of it.And also Hitlers father was a drunken tyrant who was rough and abusive on the whole family and even hitlers mother, who herself was a devote christian who went and took the children to church regular.
later in life Hitler was said to be very impressed by Karl Lueger the leader of the christian social party who was openly involved in antisemitism .Hitler may also have been influenced by the writings of the ideologist and anti-Semite named Lanz von Liebenfels.Where he lived it was a was a hotbed of traditional religious prejudice and 19th century racism.They say without any question Lutheranism was also a influence.It would be deceitful to say certain types christianity were not also activly involved in hatered of Jews.
And then of course on the otherside of this story was the Jews and their religious beliefs faiths and practices complete with prejudices also.Religion religion religion....As ever always a hotbed of intolerance and division just like a large sword,just like your mate Jesus even argee`s Barb!
And after these fact even with Jesus agreeing you then still wish to try blame all simply atheists/agnogstics etc ,for the outcomes of extremisms of societies with faith in the many gods?
Barb what type of justice and honesty is this?
Barb -->"Good grief! So human rights and freedom of religion and free expression of religion are not features of New Zealand, eh? What will happen to them if they don't hide???"
Nothing they dont have to hide if they dont want to .But our society doesnt need to make them feel so welcome either.
With your bleat of :quote -->"How kind, respectful and tolerant of diversity they are!!! My my!"
My my ! what are you suggesting Barb ? are you saying we should simply "be expected" to simply tolerate everyone like maybe rapists and murders and suchlike also?
What type of assertion is this that you are you making that supposedly think our societies should "have to" be willing to be tolerant of nasty divise faiths that historically have most often always split and divide our societies and even caused war and disharmony?.
We dont need these extreme religious nutcase people poking their nose in and with such bigoted belief trying to convert folks overseas causing disharmony dislike and distaste and hate,which then leads to our societies getting bombed and our brothers blood then being needed to be shed endlessly in wars.
We just dont need it Barb ...Whats more we wont have it either!
But dont worry if extreme Muslims ever start trying it on here,they will surely be met very very quickly with the very same distaste !
Barb --->"On the contrary, religious freedom and protestant Christianity made America the best place in the world to live --and the most powerful and generous nation in the world"
Well wars are very costly Barb . And your country seems to fight them rather endlessly,almost like as if the money to finance them must grow magically on trees out in your folks garden or something.
Yes for sure you were once well known to be considered very powerful that is no doubt...But after more and more costly wars and the recession etc,well its your guess what the actual honest truth of the matter is really becoming now.But remember only the real truth is ever the real truth of the matter isnt it!,dont work off what the actual truth is and youll continue to pay the price for that also.
There is some other very very big powers quietly saving money and building more power and getting bigger and bigger themselves,while the U.S.A all the while seems hell bent on spending their hard earned cash hard out fighting wars everywhere.Hmmmm?
Just saying!.Its atleast worth a thought!
We do often reap what we sow Barb and NZers cannot afford to have bigotted religious fanatics poking their noses into politics and trying to convert folks overseas and causing us hatered and dislike and distaste and even wars.
We cant afford it and we will do everything to stop it happening.
Gandolf Evidence suggest it is very likely only myth passed on by ancient superstitious man who we know was superstitious and couldnt even understand where lightning came from.
Evidence suggests? What evidence? I think man is inclined to worship because he was made for it --because the universe suggests there is someone out there --our bodies and the beauties of nature suggest it --As the Bible said, we see His handiwork in what He has made --What He has made is evidence of the Creator. And of course, primitive men HOPED they could appease the god or gods of nature so they wouldn't suffer from natural calamities or war or disease, etc.
Christianity is the GOOD NEWS, that our God has been appeased in the sacrifice of Christ --and we can know eternal well-being because Christ rose from the dead and promised the same for us!! no matter what happens in this life.
Communism is an ideology which denies individual rights, individual right to ownership, and freedom in general --and the existance of God. There is to be no allegiance to anyone higher than the state. "Religion is the opiate of the people" said Marx.
so it's more than just a "political system." It presupposes there is no God and discourages such belief through force and persecution.
You can't blame Christ or Christianity for Stalin's dysfunctional upbringing or the religious confusion in his house. Stalin was a communist and as such surely believed that religion is an opiate and a threat to communism -- it is the latter.
How odd --you think I suggest tolerance of rapists murderers -and Christians. No, I suggest tolerance of CHRISTIANs, not the other two. You, on the other hand, want us to embrace, celebrate, and promote immoral sexual practices and probably abortion in order to prove our tolerance.
You say we are abroad in the middle east to force conversions through our wars?? Hardly! The Middle-east has been a hotbed of controversy and misery and civil wars and a terrorist seed bed --for YEARS before we ever went there --or had missionaries there --since they kill missionaries.
Gandolf,
I'm sorry I can't give you specific passages or verses to read here because my Bible is downstairs, but I challenge you to read the book of Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, even before Genesis was written.
While reading, notice that Job talks of snow, the stars and sun in a way that was not known to man for centuries later, etc, and tell me how this "superstition" happened to be right on the money?
Where would he have seen snow in the dessert around Iraq? How would he know the alignment of the planets and that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around?
Were they good guesses by this "superstitious man" who happened to be such a good servant of God that God allowed Satan to test him, up to but not including hurting Job himself?
He lost everything he had and then the Lord restored it all ten-times over, but read this book if you dare, and you will see how this man of God handled his misfortune.
Yes, he whined a bit, but not much when you consider what Satan did to him and his family.
Then tell me about the "superstitious old man" who knew more than the scientists who later came along.
Take the challenge. It won't burn your eyes out and I doubt the word Christ or Christian even appears.
You don't even have to tell any of your unbelieving friends you're reading it. Just tell us what you found out. In the meantime, I'll try to find references for you to look up, but it's been awhile since I've read it myself.
To read about snow mentioned in Job go here but then read the entire chapters so you can see it in context.
Job 9:9 says "He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion,
the Pleiades and the constellations of the south. Reference.
Now, just how do you suppose this man who lived before Moses, probably hundreds of years before, this "superstitious man" knew about the constellations by name?
Read the rest of Job and see what you can learn from a "superstitious old man."
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