Sunday, November 22, 2009


Hi Barb,
Here is a little info on the fish with the "leg" fin you mentioned on Sunday.

I just got done watching a DVD by Dr. Kent Hovind and it was talking about that scenario! The Lobe Finned Fish is suppose to be an index fossil for Devonian that was from 325 million years ago. Funny thing is that the fish is still alive today and can be found in the Indian Ocean. The statement that the leg was evolving into a fin doesn't seem plausible since they still exist today. Not very likely that they have survived 325 million years. After the first fish like this was discovered, they should have gone back and challenged the geological column. I learned this and other neat scientific evidence that challenges Evolution on the DVDs by Kent Hovind. You can check them out at All of the seminars are available to watch for free under multimedia, all media, all videos - this is from #4 Lies in the Textbooks. Very interesting DVDs. :)

Any lobe-finned bony fish of the order Crossopterygii. Members of an extinct suborder are considered to have been the ancestors of land vertebrates. Modern coelacanths (genus Latimeria) are deep-sea fishes with hollow fin spines. They are powerful, heavy-bodied predators, with highly mobile, limblike fins. They average 5 ft (1.5 m) in length and weigh about 100 lbs (45 kg). Coelacanths appeared about 350 million years ago and were thought to have become extinct 80 million years ago until one was caught in 1938 near the southern coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean. A second species was discovered living near Indonesia in 1998.

This gal does her research! out of her conservative Christian interest in theories of origins!

"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life."--the Bible


mud_rake said...

Dr. Kent Hovind is a shyster fraud with zero science background who is serving a ten-year prison sentence in the Federal Correctional Institution, Edgefield in Edgefield, South Carolina, after being convicted of 58 federal counts, including twelve tax offenses, one count of obstructing federal agents and forty-five counts of structuring cash transactions.

Barb said...

a little further study would indicate that Mr. Hovind is even out of favor with AIG (Answers in Genesis.) And that his PhD is in doubt being from a tiny, non-accredited "diploma mill."

However I think he did teach math and science in some kind of school.

And I don't know that my friend's info from his videos is false.

AndThenSome said...

I highly recommend Neil Shubin's book Your Inner Fish. It goes into great detail about this issue and is very accessible to the non-scientist.

His Ph.D. in organismic and evolutionary biology is from Harvard, and is not in any doubt.

mud_rake said...

barb- you are even more pathetic that normal, but with the 150th celebration of that secular humanist, Charles Darwin, tomorrow, I can see how people living in your World of Delusion are very nervous and want to believe whatever pap they can shuttle trough their christian network.

Hovind is a fraud; so are you if you 'believe' that he has one ounce of scientific credibility because you 'believe' that once he taught math an science in some kind of school. At least he didn't 'teach' science in a non-school.

His PhD was in christian studies! It doesn't require one class in science, not even biology 101.

Posting articles like this one debases any shred of credibility that you might have. Stop dabbling in the world of science as clearly you are clueless in this domain.

Stick with the bible in your World of Delusion.

Barb said...

This is a link to one article by creationists critical of Hovind -- and Wikipedia directs readers to more.

In Christendom, there are MANY interpretations of Genesis and they all criticize each other --but what they all agree about is that God designed; there is intelligence behind our design and our DNA. The creationist looks at our common features --say anything that we share with fish or apes --and says it's proof of a designer in common ---common design features -sort of like all autos share design features.

Creationists don't believe that sharing DNA with the ape PROVES that we have common ape-like ancestors. The differences between human and animal life are vast and couldn't be random or accidental as the evolutionist supposes. The ID/creationist interprets that DNA in common simply means that the DEsigner used some of the same building blocks for LIFE in every living creature--the 4 basic design components/units of DNA.

Darwin would interpret the common DNA as evidence of his theory that all life evolved from one-celled amoeba over billions of years of gradual adaptation and natural selection, survival of the fittest and so on. And BTW, creationists and ID theorists agree that there IS natural selection, etc. WITHIN kinds of creatures --but the dogs are still dogs; cats still cats; humans still humans in their offspring-- no matter what varieties/species occur within the family. Darwin doesn't acknowledge the obvious EVIDENCE of A GUIDING, INTELLIGENT/MIND/ HAND IN THE PROCESS. And those devotees of his who are atheistic see his theory as PROOF there is no God --but they don't even have PROOF of transitions in evolution!

The theistic evolutionist and Intelligent design theorists say intelligence was necessary and is obvious even if Darwin was otherwise correct.

The Creationist (also ID theorist) agrees on that point --but says, "where is the evidence of these transitions?" Why only transitions WITHIN kinds of creatures today --each producing after its own kind --with genetic variation that keeps the human human, the ape ape, the fish,fish --and so on. JUST AS THE BIBLE DESCRIBES! Fossils do not prove evolutionist claims --EVER! Just because an extinct creature shares features with 2 modern-day creatures does not prove they are "related" --except by design.

Barb said...

I don't have an opinion about 6-days for creation except to say that with the God of Resurrection and JEsus's miracles with a Word or a touch --our God didn't need eons to create all of earthly life. If we can produce great complexity (human-wise) with a written word --or one keystroke or even a spoken command--on a computer --why not acknowledge the possibility of truth in the following:

In the beginning was the WORD --the LOGOS--and the word was God --and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.....and without Him was not anything made --that was made.

As Genesis said, "He SPOKE --and there was light."

There is still PLENTY of mystery to ponder after accepting this truth --who are the beings Genesis speaks of in "Let us make man in OUR image" ? Some say, the Trinity and the angels. Is there life on other planets? If not, why not? Where and what are Heaven and Hell? And many other ponderings.

Mormons try to fill in these blanks --but our Bible contradicts Joseph Smith's mental meanderings. Satan indeed was NOT Christ's brother! We are not destined to become equals with Christ --though we are heirs with Him because of what He did for us. We are siblings of His through His work on the cross.

I hang my faith hat on the historicity of Jesus Christ --He really came, healed, performed miracles, died and resurrected and ascended.

I'm told in God's Word that that's the faith I need to inherit Eternal life. "To those who believe on HIs name, He gave the right to be called "children of God." "..whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

It doesn't take a scientist to have valid-truth-based faith --and the scientist cannot discredit my faith convincingly. And many, many well-credentialed and leading scientists believe in God as Creator --and the Bible as His Word --and Christ as His Son. And they are valuable in their work.

So let's hear no more nonsense about people of faith in creation being non-scientists or unfit to be scientists --no Darwinian litmus test for students and teachers of science --considering that many of the giants in science historically have also been devout people of faith. --and considering that many who do defend creationism and intelligent design ARE scientists with advanced degrees from secular U's.

Yes, teach the basics of both views --so believers and non-believers share a common scientific language. But evolutionists have not disproven GOD! And no fossil will ever do so.

mud_rake said...

May I be the first to wish you and your one or two visitors a Happy Darwin Day!

I know, you will be listening to christian radio most of the day [when not reading Genesis] so that the evil secular humanist spirits of the day do not get a chance to infect you.

I'm looking forward to your first book, Living in the World of Delusion. It should be hilarious for those living in the real, natural world.

Why not give it a go? Try writing a rough-copy introduction and post it here. After all, it has to be better than the usual pap and drivel you offer.

My Life as Delusion might be a good title for the introduction.

On this Darwin Day, you need to evolve, girl! Just do it!

Barb said...

You'll be dismayed to hear, Mudly, that I don't really mind some of your comments of late -- at least you are taking the time to engage instead of just slinging the worst kind of muck from the bottom of your den!

I don't even mind a sense of humor at my expense --as in the Old Birds Gossiping photo link you posted. I chuckled.