Monday, November 24, 2008

Two Californians Speak on Prop 8

Thanks to the Bayly blog linked by Matthew at Mudrake's for this interesting article.

Two famous people speak about homosexuality here. On behalf of Rick Warren, I believe the church has no other option than to approach the issue as he does in this snippet from a tv show. If he were to speak longer on the subject, I'm sure he would agree that the other speaker is accurate in God's opinion of this lifestyle.

The church is not to preach hatred and foment violence toward groups; the punishment will come from God in His timing. Meanwhile, we are to preach the love of God, His moral standards, and invite all to respond to God's grace. At the same time, the church needs to stand firm on the Creator's intention for our sexuality--and the meaning of marriage, as Warren did.

"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life."--the Bible


matthew said...


That's not the article I linked to, is it? I can't check now because Mudrake deleted my post. He doesn't like it when we call abortion a holocaust but you know this better than I.

Anyway... I thought I linked to an article written by a man in my church regarding abortion. I was hoping to show the people at Mudrake's blog what an aborted baby looks like.

Barb said...

You are right --I saw THIS post because of your link on Mudrake's blog to the other article on abortion.

I know who mudrake is now. the pieces of puzzle all fit together. I know where he lives, too. It's not a surprise --I had ruled out this person for thinking he was younger than he is. The clue was to my school board days --he knew of me from then and harbors deep-seated animosity for me --though I never even thought to try and get him fired! So it's not personal, that I can think of.

So I don't think I'll be having much more trouble --maybe deletions, but what's new?

If he posts my name and address and maps to my house and photos of it ever again, I'll probably not turn the other cheek, but post his as well.

Ah, the tension between justice and pacifism! tsk tsk!

I always am willing to make peace --let bygones be bygones. I wish he could --for his own soul's sake. It feels good to have a light heart about other's criticism --something only God can do in us, right?

matthew said...

So he's a teacher at AW? Or retired, more likely, since he's most active in the daytime?

Barb said...

Yes -- 60's --retired. I knew that about Mudrake, but thought this teacher I knew to be caustically, Mudrakian liberal from some of his Blade letters, was younger. But I found evidence of the teacher's retirement and his age through Google.

Clues included: Kateb's acquainance with him from Limedrop screen name at City Talk to Liberal Democrat at Politics in Mudville (where he started to write about me) to Mudrake. Somewhere along the line, she and other bloggers knew the identity of Liberal Dem. I gather he used to do to her on previous blogs or forums much that he does to me. As she posted here, and as he demonstrates, he is mysogenist toward Christian women.

An online essay by this teacher, found by googling his distinctive name, tells of a sister who was a nun, a father showing signs of OCD and Catholic history. Mudrake told another blogger here that his sister had been a nun and told us all that his father had serious OCD.

Other clues --Mudrake told us he lives a mile from Joe the Plumber --and this teacher does.

Mudrake goes to Roche de boufe festival in Waterville and knows people there (he blogged about it once) --as an AW teacher might even though he doesn't live near Waterville.

The Catholic Church he claims as his own isn't too far away.

He mentioned being published in the blade --this teacher does do that --though it was reported in the Blade recently in an article on Dr. Hussain that this teacher doesn't do it anymore because the fellow who was arrested for harrassing Hussain harrassed him, too.

You'd think the Golden Rule would be instructive here --knowing he doesn't like to be harrassed for HIS views, why does he do it to others???

Finally, the teacher is a liberal democrat as evidenced in his Blade letters. he was one of 3 teachers I suspected of being Mudrake because of his knowledge that I, who had a letter published in the Blade, had been on AW Board of Ed. I just didn't know he was older than I that he could be retired. He is both.

I knew he had to be retired (or unemployed) to spend as much time tending his blog as he does. More time, research, photos, etc. than I have capacity for in my blog.

I always told him he had an interesting blog which he works hard at with several new posts with pictures and links, daily. And that I liked to go to his blog because his topics are of interest to me --and because he says things that are not true about people like me --such that I think he needs the balance and reality that I or any other Christians could bring to his blog --though Christians don't all think alike either , obviously, as you and I know.

Jeanette said...

I wrote to Mudrake about a year ago to try to start a dialog. I asked about his history and told him mine when he asked.

Here is his email to me which confirms he had a sister who was a nun and an aunt who was one and resented being pushed aside for them.

"Hi Jeanette,

I have more time today to reply. I was born a Christian [R. Catholic] and have lived as one all of my life. My parents were very strict Catholics and were very anti-Catholic, even forbidding me to be a Cub Scout because the troop met in a Protestant church. Imagine that!

I had both a sister and an aunt were were nuns so my life was rather centered around 'convent life.' The first priority of my family and extended family was to cater to the schedule of the sisters. I accepted my far-distant role in the family and bore that all of the way thorough the death of my mother, to please her. Nonetheless, I had resentment for 'the church' for a;ways being first in our lives.

My falling out with the church, if I can pinpoint a day, was at the baptism of our infant son. My father was quite advanced in age and dying of cancer, but wanted to be present for this ceremony. The priest officiating it was cold and clueless to his condition and 'ordered' my father to stand in a certain spot. When my father did not respond, he yelled at him and pointed to where he wanted him. It was a pitiful moment and clearly an indication that an organized church, with such a hold on its members, was not what I wanted for the remainder of my life.

Incidentally, that priest was later convictedof molesting children in the church and was kicked out. He died a drunk in a floozy hotel in downtown Toledo.

I never saw much warmth in that church [or many others] that reflected the kind and peaceful life that Jesus led. It was all about rules, money, and structure. A few years later we joined a newly-formed liberal Catholic church, still sanctioned by the diocese. It was an answer to Vatican II if you know of that fresh-air movement of the church in the 1960's. Our family and the others who joined felt a good bond and we were able to create our own liturgical services and other prayer gatherings, unfettered by the rules of the church.

We spent many years there through the growing-up years of our children. They received their sacraments there. Sadly, it closed about 10 years ago due to the priest shortage. The experiment was over and the new bishop of Toledo, a very conservative man, would have shut it down even if there was a priest available.

Today we attend the university Catholic church of the U. Of Toledo. It is progressive and has a spirit-filled service. It is that other breath of fresh air, some 40 years later.

Toledo has been the center of much priest sex abuse and sadly our children, although themselves not victims, were in the school where much of it occurred. Three teacher-priests were part of a sex ring at a summer cottage. My children knew several of the victims quite well. My son refuses to attend church today. My daughter is more broad-minded and still attends, although cautiously. I am angered by it all. One of the first cases of recorded abuse occurred in my childhood parish; that priest has skirted the law [statute of limitations] and has still not been charged even though the molestations happened 40 years ago.

The structured Catholic church is terrible and is filled with cover-ups, spin, and denial. It is a hopeless body that is becoming more medieval in its thinking with each passing year.

My personal beliefs are few. I have tossed out quite a lot of myth and nonsense that was 'taught' to me. Jesus led a simple, kind and peaceful life; that I can abide. All the rest of 'the story' is window dressing and not important for my life.

Well, I hope that this is what you wanted to hear. What's your faith story?

Best wishes,


Since I haven't revealed his name and his biography is pretty much public knowledge I see no problem posting this, but if you think it should be deleted please do so and I won't be offended.

Jeanette said...

What is an AW teacher?

Barb said...

What does AW mean? Not AWesome, unfortunately. AW stands for Anthony Wayne Local Schools.

They had a pretty awesome band and choir program. And their academic status in the state is near the top. The state's insistance on grade level standards and determining those standards was starting when I was on the school board -even before the No Child Left Behind thrust. Standards helped to keep some teachers on task, teaching to objectives on which the students would be tested.

We didn't need teachers to think their primary job was "social change agent" --having the students do "relaxation techniques" "clearing the mind" and letting any thoughts come in without filter, imagining a "spirit guide. " passing around the bongs, getting a sophisticated knowledge about drugs, and seeing condom demonstrations on bananas. We didn't need their deplorable decision making guides that put values on a smorgasbord table.

No, we needed them to get those 3 R's mastered and other core curricula standards covered. And that left less time for social engineering and new age nonsense.

Jeanette, you are free to post what you want --there isn't anything here that is humiliating to Mudrake like what he usually writes- but in his email to you, he confirms that he did have a sister who was a nun --just as that teacher did.

We knew from his blogs that Mudrake had a Catholic upbringing. I think he told about his father's anti-protestant feelings on his blog --and how he was OC about it --and I've always pointed out to him that he is the same toward protestants today --he just focuses on what he calls the fundamentalists and theocrats.

It is sad that he let some sinful and unChristian priests turn him off to what he calls the organized church --and that he is pretty much an agnostic, at least--as a result. Just how alive and well is the true Gospel of Christ in the Catholic Church today? NOt very --with the enclave of gay men and liberal nuns running the place. (Complaints from some conservative Catholics I know.) There are some devout Catholics who have seen the light and many who have left for more spiritually alive congregations and preaching-- obviously their church has a lot of systemic troubles --and I say it is partly due to bad doctrine and not staying true to the Word.

HOWEVER, I have seen some devout Catholic writings --thought some Catholic weddings had good content --but also attended some services that were cold and dead --which can be true of some protestant denominations as well.

I do know there is a core of real believers in the Catholic Church. Met some in the pro-life work.

The believers are part of a BODY of worshippers --the Body of Christ. We are not to go it alone but to find fellowship and mutual support and challenge in the Body--but not molesters running the church.

As a Body we can usually do more of Christ's commission --to make disciples --than as individuals. We don't all have the gift for evangelism --but the church DOES have that gift --at least a Bible-based, Bible-believing church with called and equipped and godly leadership does.

We can all invite people to attend our churches --and get them into the place where the discipling and the nurture and the fellowship and the body ministries take place. And yes, the church does reach out with its ministries and do more together than any of us can do individually.

Jesus said the Church would be known by their love for one another --and that can't be shown to the world as Christ's love if we aren't known as members of His Body --if we are closet Christians. We'll get earthly credit for our deeds; He won't.

Good deeds are done by individuals, but how does Christ get the credit as He should if we embrace the notion that we shouldn't bother anyone with the knowledge that we are Christians --or let them know that we even admire Christ as Mudrake claims to do?

Would Christ be pleased with plagiarism, with impersonating and harrassing and name calling? Indeed not.

He will have justice later if not sooner.

I think it was justice that a Christian lady uncovered M's plagiarism and 3 of us had the pieces of the puzzle to identify Mudrake.

God is Good.

Happy Thanksgiving! A BLESSED thanksgiving. We are feasting on Friday --but will enjoy tomorrow as well.

Mudrake, I think you have NO IDEA how I really feel about you --it's not what you think --I would make real and lasting peace in a heartbeat with you --despite our differences --if you would just let yourself receive friendship from a protestant. So would others here.

Barb said...

Ps to mudrake -but darkness cannot fellowship with light.

Do you really think you are walking in the Light? and that we are in darkness because we adhere to ages-old Biblical morality and respect for life in the womb? because we don't worship at the altar of personal choice above all?

If I were as miserable as you seem, I would call upon God to give me a Damascus Road experience --to give the joy of salvation.

kateb said...

Just an fyi - a cursory search reveals NO Catholic Priests dying in a hotel in Toledo.

Just thought you'd like to know what you could be dealing with.