Saturday, October 18, 2008

Why One Christian Man Won't Vote for Obama

This is an excellent email that the musician Huntley Brown sent to all his friends. It was verified as his and he responded to Snopes' verification.

I see where the ACLU wants to outlaw a tradition of prayer by a chaplain before lunch in one of our military academies.

We are going to see religious expression and freedom greatly curtailed in public by an Obama Supreme court which WILL be composed of ACLU members, radical liberals.

Polite and reasonable as Obama presents himself, he has been surrounded by radical liberals and WAS voted the most liberal senator in 2007.

"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life."--the Bible


mud_rake said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mud_rake said...

The un-Christian Woman

steve said...

Did you see that documentary on PBS about all the soldiers returning from Iraq and figuring out that Jesus doesn't want them to kill anybody, so they are seeking conscientious objector status in droves?

Barb said...

No, I didn't, Steve. But that's not surprising really--for Christians. apparently, the Christians in the military have been effective at conversions. Rob leans that way --and my husband did as one who thought he might be a missionary MD some day. Face to face with an enemy, they know they are killing someone's sons, husbands, fathers --who are often fighting for a cause that even THEY don't believe in. And we do take Jesus' teaching to love our enemies seriously.

but the war in Iraq is about stopping the bullies who would kill their countrymen, women and children --and killing them during the process of those people bullying their countrymen --preventing their bombings. Who has killed the most Iraqis? I bet it's local and interloping Muslims from inside and outside of Iraq --start with Sadam's death toll.

No. Korea is Hell for Christians and dissenters from the worship of Little Kim. The breath of freedom in a land is precious to everyone, including Christians and the spread of the Gospel of ETERNAL LIFE --and to earthly life, too.

I think war IS a noble enterprise on the side of the liberators. there really is evil that simply must be stopped before the only ones left on the earth are evil.

You realize this if you bring it down to the classroom level--or the neighborhood level. You have to stop the bullies and if they WILL NOT behave, they have to be addressed in ways that seem inhumane to liberals--like paddling. There should be a balance of love and teaching good, humane values like the Golden Rule in elem. school and with neighborhood children. Sometimes juvenile jail is a last resort --and how awful that we should have to have such places. But the reality is that evil exists and it will take over if there is no opposition. And while love is a powerful opposition to hate --there are those given over to Satan entirely and they won't listen to reason or love and simply must be stopped before they kill the innocent and destroy freedom.

I believe the US military does take prisoners rather than killing whenever we can. And I know they target military installations and combatants and try to protect women and kids --but sadly, evil regimes embed their soldiers with civilians (since Viet Nam) and involve women and kids in the warfare so it is hard to avoid violence to them in a war zone.

Almost every movie about war, spies, etc. involves evil folks who must be stopped from their killing ways. Kill or be killed in these situations. There is heroic courage in the battle against evil.

The Bible predicts wars and rumors of wars when Christ returns to reign on the earth.

Some people believe that both sides believe they are right and have some justification for their position. I wonder what the No. Korean leadership thinks in their denial of freedom, religious and otherwise. I suppose they believe that might makes right --that people have to be controlled with an iron fist in order to have order -but the power holders/seekers also just want the wealth and power of a nation for themselves. they like being "king of the Hill."

Barb said...

I saw where some huge crowds of Iraqis were demonstrating for the U.S. military to leave. Knowing media and the masses, I'm sure there are many who want us to stay there and help maintain peace and get the nation on its feet again --stabilized. That's what the soldiers I know tell me.

Those who want us to leave either don't realize the consequences or they want to dominate their political opposites and we stand in the way --like some of the Sunni who want the dominance they had under Sadam's reign of terror --and some of the Shia who might like to get rid of the Sunnis. Then there are those in between who really want peace for the various factions. We are on THEIR side.

steve said...

I don't think Christians should be killing.. PerioD! God didn't say: "Thou shalt not kill.. except in times of war.." He just said "Thou shalt NOT KILL". And Jesus said "Live by the sword, die by the sword." War is obsolete, just like slavery, and human sacrifice as a way to solve international problems. Sadaam would DEFINATELY responded to a carrot and stick form of diplomacy.. the picture with him shaking Rumsfeld's hand during the Iran / Iraq war says it all.

Rob R said...

God didn't say: "Thou shalt not kill.. except in times of war.." He just said "Thou shalt NOT KILL".

Steve, a Christian foundation for pacifism can be found but this is not it. The Hebrew verb for kill here in this commandment is of a special form that speaks of something beyond merely extinguishing life. To ignore this only makes the law and the history of which this rule comes from incoherent and contradictory. The correct word is murder and murder is killing those who do not deserve to be killed. It isn't just any form of killing whatsoever.

To say that killing, violence and war is an activity that is always immoral for all participants no matter what... that is to say it is a timeless absolute is to sabotauge the Jewish roots of Jesus the Messiah.

A more consistent approach is to note the change from the old covenant to the new, that the old covenant was there to establish the Jews from whom the Messiah would come, but now we are under a new period of grace where our enemies are not leaders of physical nations, militaries and militants but evil forces and deceptions that have captured humanity. Under this new era of grace, the justice of punishment against the evil and wicked has been satisfied by Christ and is available to any of the wicked if they would just accept it, which includes not just criminals, despots, and terrorists but all of humanity. The people of God are no longer marked out by an earthly nation and hence it is not an entity that goes to war with other earthly nations.

As for your stance against all killing whatsoever, if that's how you feel, then you don't have a candidate. Obama may not be hawkish but it seems to me that he is willing to use the military to achieve some ends by force.

mud_rake said...

More right-wing neocon ideologues hiding under the cloak of Jesus. Hypocrites!

Valérie said...


"More right-wing neocon ideologues hiding under the cloak of Jesus. Hypocrites!"

I have to say that I have never read anything as disgusting and hypocrite from a Christian person as what this rob-r man says. It is revolting.

I am discussing abortion and religion with Jeanette on PP, and even if we have differences, she is not at all that kind of revolting pretend Christian that I see in this man here. To think he claims to belong to my religion makes me shiver with shame and horror.

Barb said...

Valerie, you obviously don't understand what Rob wrote.His was a reasoned, temperate response, perhaps over your head or your English skill --no offense intended.

Put it in your own words what you think he said so we can understand what has you so upset.

Barb said...

For Valerie: To put it in plainer English, perhaps, Rob said the Bible didn't say "thou shalt not kill" but "thou shalt not murder." He has studied Hebrew, so he knows.

Murder is killing those who are criminally "innocent"; there was at the same time capital punishment in Israel and war --sanctioned by the Creator --i.e. killing those who were wicked.

Yet, he is also saying that Jesus's Kingdom is not synonymous with any earthly nation --and that Jesus's sacrifice covers the sin of even the evil people--if they will only repent and receive God's free gift of forgiveness.

Therefore, Christians should want to preach salvation to sinners and love them instead of killing them --which is why humanitarian works are so important in God's sight (though they are not a means of salvation.)

Rob tends to think Christians should not kill, even in war. I would think you agree with him.

I don't think it's a realistic stance --I think that just as the People of God waged war in the Old Testament, Christians will be involved in forcibly restraining evil forces today --even though no earthly nation is the same as the kingdom of God --and even though the heart of a predominantly Christian nation would be pacifistic.

And so it is that we DO love peace --and seek it--and fight for it-- some of us Christians still believe the bullies need to be stopped and prevented from evil-doing --that freedom is something worth fighting for --for the furtherance of the Gospel. America has been able to send out missionaries and bibles and the Word of God --because we are FREE to do so. Granted, Christianity can spread during oppression as in China and No. Korea, but I believe freedom in the U.S. makes American Christians' efforts abroad more plentiful.

mud_rake said...

I have to say that I have never read anything as disgusting and hypocrite from a Christian person as what this rob-r man says. It is revolting.

That is of no shock to me, Valérie, because Rob has lived with his mom for more than 20 years and has been 'fed' the lines penned by his mother that you and I have read both here as well as on my blog and PP.

Why wouldn't the 'virus' be spread from mother tho son? How would he be able to resist this dominant mother figure? Perhaps when he gets away from her domination, he's be able to expand his thinking. Until then, he's a clone of mother.

Barb said...

Gee whiz, Mudrake, don't let the Truth hit you in the fanny --or slap you in the face --or even confuse you.

You can't even see when Rob and I disagree.

What's wrong with your hearing and vision?? your understanding??

get some light and joy and truth in your life! Quickly, before you self-destruct!

steve said...

I think Jesus is cool, and by cool I mean totally sweet. Why is everyone so obsessed about Jesus? Because Jesus is the ultimate parodox, on the one hand he is the prince of peace, but on the other hand he's coming back with a sword in his mouth to totally slay peeps. SWEET!

steve said...

^ I know the "sword" is the "word", no need to write me a treates for my funny.

Barb said...

With Jesus, there is the reality of Good vs. Evil. Evil has to be repented of --it is already paid for -- it wants to control the world and war is one way.

If we believe in Jesus as the Son of God, he gives us the power and right to be called "children of God." We are not all God's children--without faith, according to the Sword.

We have a choice to make regarding Christ.

mud_rake said...

Later this afternoon I will be posting a report on McCain’s buddy "Patriot" Pastor Rod Parsley. Surely you will recognize his 'thoughts' and his 'plans' for America as they are echoes here on a daily basis.

kateb said...

Rob - I've enjoyed your posts and I have been glad to see a man who can debate ideas without attacking.

Muckrake has long attacked Christians for their beliefs. I doubt that can change - he is an intolerant. But you know, with God, anything is possible :-)

kateb said...

Barb - I had a Pastor break down the historical language and translations at one time - but you are right.

The commandment said that we were not to 'murder'. That's the intentional theft of another person's life. For any reason.

In self-defense, the defense of family or at times of war - killing is a different matter. And it is allowable in defense.

God himself sent people out to make war on different people at different times. But again - you have some who know so much more than God.

Rob R said...

Thanks kateb

steve said...

Cue hi-hat and wha wha guitar:

Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?
Ya damn right!

Who is the man that would risk his neck For his brother man?
Can you dig it?

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
Right On!

They say this cat OBAMA is a bad mother f-
I'm just talkin' 'bout OBAMA.


He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his.. WOHMAN!

Barb said...

Steve, you're crossing the line here. Want to self-delete?

You didn't write this yourself, did you? Your parents must be worried.

I try to run a PG rated blog at worst --or PG 13, maybe. without profanity or obscenity or vulgarity - -though I have sparred with Mudly about his enema needs.

Barb said...

But he started it!

candyly said...

Shaft? Ever heard of him? Movie? Theme song? Won a Academy Award? Can ya dig it?

Barb said...

I'm not too hip

especially when it comes to the MF word and the Dk word, the Dm word and the concept of a "sex machine"

Not a Shaft fan, obviously.

kateb said...

Barb, I'm sorry you're encountering this. Again. But I have enjoyed talking with you and several other people on your blog.

It is worth noting that it is a common passtime for people to come here and be so rude - I wonder what their axe to grind actually is?

I mean how badly behaved do you have to be to come onto a Christian womans' blog and use profanity and attack Christianity on every level?

Nasty people indeed. But it isn't really worth giving up dialogue, maybe just mark those users names and we can scan on by them.

It seems like the more you try to discuss issues with them the more abusive they become.

steve said...

"Steve, you're crossing the line here."

I'm just talkin' 'bout OBAMA.

kateb said...

One should have enough respect to offer an apology when one is due.

When you have raided a Christian woman's blog with profanity and an attack on Christian beliefs - that would be a really good time to humble yourself and apologize.

You're pretty nasty dude. Icky in fact.

Barb said...


actually, Steve is usually pretty good-humored and posts my blog on his blog roll --which no other liberal has done for me, that I know of.

He has parents who believe like I do. So he knows he better straighten up about that profanity (which is rare for him) and not do it again or get his bottom whooped! I'm gonna hunt him down and take him to the woodshed!

Steve, you really should bring your wife to our Sunday night Truth Project --the young people there gathered have interesting discussion and watch a DVD --and eat well. I don't participate by choice-- I wouldn't want to dominate! Rob is prof. in charge.

steve said...

The nookular boys post your link on their blog roll as well. My feeling is that even though it can be taxing, blogging has no purpose if you only preach to the choir and isolate yourself to just others that are in lockstep agreement with you. Our western ideas of debate come from the classic greek idea of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. You can have no synthesis of ideas if you never talk with your antithesis. I think that when ever you put an oppinion out there, people are outwardly obstinant, but inwardly may contemplate what you had to say and may find some areas where they agree. And maybe over time both parties will soften their stance and a new reality form. Obama is Bush's antithesis, why not give him a chance and see what synthesis forms? That's our western way of doing things.

Barb said...

I've found that Bible-believing Christian bloggers can disagree with me as much as the others! But usually on matters of religion, and sometimes politics --but not usually on morality, the importance of God, the Bible, Christ as the Way to God.

I think I forgot that Don and the Nookular Option boys had me on their blogroll. So that's two liberal bloggers who charitably post links to The Barb Wire.

don is a reasonable and pleasant blogger also, a law student.

I agree, Steve, that communication is good between those of us of differing views --and so I have a real difference with those who censor and delete opposing views as our friend Mudrake does.

Granted, I think I'm right --and granted, my opponents think they are right --so compromise isn't much in evidence. HOWEVER, I think we can learn facts from each other that we ought to know --including the fact of how evangelicals REALLY think, e.g.

I've so often been maligned and accused of racism and hatred and lying --and that's just not my motivation in life or my M.O.

steve said...

"maligned and accused of racism and hatred and lying"

Jung thinks that sometimes our shadow is bigger than our souls.

Barb said...


Barb said...

Are you saying if one is accused --one's shadow may be the truth?


It's still not true of me what Mudrake and Microdot say --that I'm the hater. NO way. That's just their justification for their own negative feelings --and hatred.

It's ok to "hate" the Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan types --so if you can cast your political opponents as such, you justify the lynch-mob mentality you feel toward those who disagree with you.

Barb said...

Not speaking of "you" personally, Steve --but the libs who love to hate their ideological opponents.

kateb said...

Well I have seen Steve's site and he's a liberal who doesn't respect Jesus. At all. He's a bonafide blasphemer.

So you weren't shooting in the dark Barb.