Monday, September 22, 2008

Obama's Words on Born Alive Infant Protection Act

The following information is taken from Mona Charen's column, 9/22/08, titled "Abortions sometimes do produce live births."

In the Illinois legislature, Barack headed the committee considering the Born Alive Act in that state (which the feds called BAIPA --Born Alive Infant Protection Act) --which would obligate hospitals and doctors to try to save the lives of babies who survived abortion. There were testimonies given about nurses who held babies until they died; about survivors of abortion who are glad to be alive today; about babies who were abandoned in a closet until they died (here in Toledo). When an abortion failed, the "health care" protocol was to give the baby no help; let it die.

In 2001, Barack said of this: "I mean it; it would essentially bar abortions because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute."

In 2003, Barack still opposed the bill (4 times in total) though a "neutrality clause" was added to say this was not to be construed as a limit on Roe Vs. Wade.

Barack said of this, in 2003, not back when he was an ignorant youth saying foolish things in college, but when he was a father himself, 5 years ago --the following:

"...an additional doctor, who then has to be called in an emergency situation and make these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman."

In other words, as Mona Charen put it, Obama's position is this: "A woman who chooses an abortion is entitled to a dead child no matter what." For this, she called him "an abortion extremist." I agree.



"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life."--the Bible

26 comments:

kateb said...

Any human being that tries to put together any combination of words that say a newborn baby should be left to die, or worse, destroyed because it's own mother failed at it's murder.....

that person? That person is a monster.

Barb said...

That's what I thought. Obama makes a great impression as a thoughtful, humane person--until you read how he dug in his heels against the born-alive infant protection act --only 5 years ago.

kateb said...

It's frightening isn't it? That any human could think that they could braid enough lexicon ok to hide the truth and allow something so heinous to occur.

There isn't a wordsmith in the world that will get out of this on judgment day.

I think to destroy innocent human life is blasphemy against God himself.

And I am THE original pro-choice womens' libber. I truly am.

I believe that if you are of the age of consent, were not raped and you live in America, the land of public education and sex ed and you find yourself pregnant? You made your choice.

To ask another human being to give their life because you don't like the repercussions of the choice you have made is unconscionable.

Christian Apologist said...

"I believe that if you are of the age of consent, were not raped and you live in America, the land of public education and sex ed and you find yourself pregnant? You made your choice."

Amen and well put.

ShitStirrer said...

"I think to destroy innocent human life is blasphemy against God himself."

Let Bush explain this to the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians he murdered.

Barb said...

Bush didn't murder anyone, SS. Sadam did before we went in to deliver the country from a tyrant--after which the citizens danced in the streets and toppled their tyrant's statue.

Exiled Iraqis in Detroit celebrated our success in toppling their Hitler.

As for the deaths in Iraq, more were at the hands of fellow Muslims than at the hands of our military. They have been bombing each other --not particularly us and not us, them. It's been Muslim against Muslim in Iraq.

Remember the jubilation of the 80 per cent or so that voted in Iraq's first democratic elections. They are still yearning to be free from terror and any would-be tyrants who would like to take them over --like Iran.

Bush will someday be remembered for ushering the middle east into the modern era --the 21st C. --where beheadings and bombings of strangers are not seen as heroic. The spotlight on the middle east has shown them to have too many barbarians among them--along with more enlightened Muslims yearning to be free. this culture clash was inevitable and it won't be pacified overnight.

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Antipelagian said...

about babies who were abandoned in a closet until they died (here in Toledo).

Barb, do you have a link with info on this?

When I read about stuff like this, I can't help but think about the sounds these babies are making. I wonder what nurses think when cries of helpless children fill the hallways.

Why aren't we weeping and rending our clothes?

ShitStirrer said...

"Why aren't we weeping and rending our clothes?"

Why aren't we weeping and rendering our clothes to the 4 million Iraqi people Bush left without a home? The 100,000 plus civilians he murdered, including your precious babies, but also kids, elderly and everything in between?

Barb said...

This was a news item printed in the Foundation for Life newsletter years ago --when the local nurse made this report. I don't know if it made the Blade or not. Dr. Michael Durbin would probably know the nurse's name but I think he moved out of town. I believe it was supposed to have happened at The Toledo hospital.

Barb said...

I assure you, S.S., that the USA has done much to help any homeless in Iraq --but don't keep saying we are the primary destroyers of their homeland --we were a catalyst for the revolution the majority longed for.

I know my nephew has led in efforts to rebuild areas and direct infrastructure restoration and meet needs.

He says the US media has it all wrong--that we have accomplished good in Iraq.

ShitStirrer said...

Antipalegian,

It is interesting to note that your blog, similarly to most right wing blogs, is set up in such a way one cannot comment unless one is a member of blog system.

I guess it's the Christian way of viewing freedom of speech, right?

Antipelagian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Antipelagian said...

SS said:
It is interesting to note that your blog, similarly to most right wing blogs, is set up in such a way one cannot comment unless one is a member of blog system.

I did this because around Jan this year, I had a troll...he impersonated people I knew, even used their avatars to confuse. He said the most despicable things...including threatening to rape my wife and newborn daughter.

I saved what he said in case I could somehow press charges...if you'd like your stomach to churn, I can share those with you.

Why aren't we weeping and rendering our clothes to the 4 million Iraqi people Bush left without a home? The 100,000 plus civilians he murdered, including your precious babies, but also kids, elderly and everything in between?

I'm one of those crazies that's opposed to the war. Here's a link to a radio clip a close friend did describing one particular atrocity related to Iraq:
US indiference to massacre

The war in Iraq, while failing to meet guidlines for just war, and being grossly immoral...does not lessen the evil of abortion. If we were to pull out of Iraq today, liberals would be toasting that pro-life victory with glasses filled with the blood of 50,000,000+ unborn children.

ShitStirrer said...

Antipalegian,

"I had a troll...he impersonated people I knew, even used their avatars to confuse. He said the most despicable things...including threatening to rape my wife and newborn daughter."

Well, all I can say is that I'm sorry for you if something like that did really happen. But I must say it's sounds completely over the top and more likely to be complete BS. Still, I leave you the benefit of the doubt.

Either way, your response to your claim makes no sense whatsoever. If someone really personally hates you as much as you claim, it's not by preventing people who don't have a Blogger account that you're gonna stop her/him: all he has to do is create a blogger account in about 5 seconds and your counter-measure becomes useless.

On the other hand, all you're really doing now is preventing 90% of visitors to put their 2 cents, i.e. near total censorship, i.e. typical right wing Christian behavior.

"if you'd like your stomach to churn, I can share those with you."

No need. My stomach churns every day watching Bush, McCain and Palin in action.

kateb said...

Vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin!!!! Go, go, go!!!

ShitStirrer said...

kateb,

"Vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin!!!! Go, go, go!!!"

Sure. I'll vote for them to have a long stay in Guantanamo.

Antipelagian said...

SS-
Whether you think I'm full of BS is of no consequence.

And yes, blocking anonymous posts has ended the barrage of perversion. Almost *anyone* can comment on my blog...and I leave up remarks that paint me in an unflattering light.

Why would blocking anonymous posts end the trolling? Because once they set up a blog, they are more traceable. As is, I pretty much can't do anything about the threats I received. Further, even though this individual likely wouldn't do anything to my family, it confused people when they'd see new comments with my name, or others, saying awful things. If anything, it discouraged others from reading.

If you have something worthwhile to say, you may take 5 minutes to set up a Blogger account, or just use Open ID as that is allowed on my site as well.In the end, you still have zero to say when it comes to abortion except to red herring like most libs.

I appreciate how you're so concerned about me limiting free speech (which I haven't), and also appreciate how that takes priority over the mangled bodies of the unborn.

kateb said...

Wow Barb - your threads really get hijacked don't they? I am sorry I contributed by responding to baiting - I'll refrain from responding to them in the future so that I won't be a contributor.

ShitStirrer said...

antipelagian,

"Whether you think I'm full of BS "

I didn't say you were full of BS. You said it, and from your response you're probably right. All I said is your story sounds like complete BS. I've seen my share of gross racist insults and hatred for many blogging years, but have never yet encountered the way over the top claims of someone threatening me personally to come murder or rape my wife and newly born girl.

You should get off watching Bush scare propaganda and get real for a change.

"And yes, blocking anonymous posts has ended the barrage of perversion."

I'm sorry to say but this confirms your story is complete BS. If anyone would have such deep hatred as to publicly make the menaces you claim, this person would have to be a psychotic moron, and would not blink an eye at opening a Blogger account in order to further harrass you.

Furthermore, your claim that tracking such stalkers is feasible if they have a Blogger account whereas it isn't if posting anonymously is ridiculously feeble and shows you are a techno-peasant - internet-wise, I mean - and should spend less time reading your bible and more time learning how the Internet works.

If you are harrassed by anyone, email, blog or otherwise, any Fed agent can track the IP address of the offender. Clearly your claim of gloom and doom is BS: if *I* had received the treatment you claim to have received, I'd be on the dude's ass faster than you can say Jesus, regardless of whether he has a Blogger account or not.

"Almost *anyone* can comment on my blog"

You're really more ignorant than should be legal. Take a big breath and THINK for a change: as it is, anyone who doesn't have a blog on Blogger or on one of the 3 or 4 other blogging systems can't even get in. That means 90% of more of visitors CANNOT leave a comment. Do you get it? Clearly, of course not. How would you know about the thousands of comments you might get since people can't even get in in the first place. Blissful ignorance, a characteristic of right wing christians of our country - I don't see, so it don't exist.

I myself never had a blog. Couldn't be bothered. I was graciously invited to be a publishing member on what Barb calls this dreaded French blog. It looked interesting, very daring, very international, and it tickled my fancy.

And yet, I actually never published a single article in spite of my adminitrator priviledge. I simply like to put my 2 cents in conversation exchanges, and leave it to the more enthusiastic and harder-working members of PP (the blog in question, http://ppblog.free.fr/) and other blogs to do the hard work of writing new articles.

This means I don't have a Blogger nor WordPress nor whatnot account anywhere. So, in spite of my being a publishing member of one of the most popular free blogging software around, I cannot say anything on your blog, regardless of your pretend "Open ID" BS. PP is not mine, I have admin privilege but not WordPress membership, so your restrictions not only prevent anonymous people but even ones in my position.

Again, 90% censorship.

So please, don't give me your gross BS about *ANYONE* being able to comment on your blog.

But I like to cruise around now and then and if I see something I agree or disagree with, to be able to say my bit without being told "oh no, you must first subscribe to OUR organization and create your own blog!".

"I appreciate how you're so concerned about me limiting free speech (which I haven't),

Your blog's freedom of speech is near zero. 90% of visitors can't post a comment. Perhaps this is your view of freedom of speech, as examplified by Bush, McCain and Palin, but it ain't mine. Even Barb's blog right here allows people to say their bit. It doesn't mean she won't nuke things which displease her (which she does in a boring repetitious manner), but at least she doesn't completely block any Tom Dick and Harry from trying to say their 2 cents.

You don't have a clue what freedom of speech is. Try visit the blog I mostly attend to: no restriction, no need for "being enrolled" in any system, no censorship on language, not ONE comment is ever deleted, however grating, rude, insulting or menacing it may be to the host.

Learn freedom, dude.

"and also appreciate how that takes priority over the mangled bodies of the unborn."
Regarding unborn mangled bodies, I have not a clue why you mention it as if I had made a statement over the issue. I haven't. I only mentioned the Iraqi civilians of all ages which Bush and Co keeps on murdering every single day at our tax payer cost.

Antipelagian said...

SS-

In the time you've spent ranting, you could have set up 5 blogger accounts.

The fact you haven't made a comment on my blog is no fault of my own. Your freedom of speech is limited only by your own laziness. Who is preventig you from setting up an account with Blogger, Wordpress, Live Journal, Typepad, or AIM? It isn't me.

Anyways, I think you're simply doing what your moniker describes...if one keeps arguing with a fool, it's difficult to tell which one's which.

Barb said...

S.S. --that's the longest post I've ever seen from you, i think.

And I do not, BTW, delete with "boring repetitious manner"

As you also noted, I rarely ever delete -- and only if it's truly just muck and S that you say you stir --vulgar, obscene, profane --mere insults don't qualify for the boot. Sarcasm and anger don't either.

Kateb --have you visited our church? I recommend a visit.

I visited the Crossroads FM Tim attends once. While we are much smaller, our music and preaching are not generally 2nd to the other FM's in town--we are just less known. I like our blend of traditional and new music. Of course, like any church, some sundays may not go as smoothly than others --especially if the musicians leave town. But I have almost never felt that a service wasn't really inspirational. It's as though God works a miracle every week and blesses the services with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

I wish that when people wrote their views, it would be enlightening, contributing to understanding --more light than heat. And yet honest, analytical.

The path to social peace is not agreement --but tolerance of disagreement. Refraining from the ad hominem attack where we "de-Christianize" professing Christians because of our disagreements --where we try to belittle each other's intellect, ability to reason, etc.

I think this is a pretty smart bunch writing here --an educated group--and we should make it more interesting and educational than contentious.

Anonymous said...

I assure you this wouldn't happen at either of the hospitals where my children were born. No one would "hold" a newborn infant, watching it die, not even aborted fetus that takes in life on God's command and then, becomes a person, as according to the Bible.

In fact, after 8 months of bed rest and difficulty at every stage of development, after telling God that my son's birth was in his hands, my son did not breath when he was born.

What was supposed to be placenta and what was going to be my youngest son was rushed the few steps away from me. Nurses and the doctor blocked my view, as well as the view from the "viewing room," where my other children and their father were watching.

I watched the clock on the wall. The seconds were ticking - one minute, two minutes, then six seconds before the three minute mark, my son moved. Then, he began to cry. He was alive! Everyone in the room looked at one another, then, at me. Then, one of the nurses moved. Then she looked up to the viewing room, smiling.

Certainly, such a thing can happen as allowing a live birth to pass from life. In the USA, there are laws against such a thing. The doctor and anyone present could be charged. At least, that is how it is in all the Midwestern states. But, in 99.9% of this kind of case, your given scenerio would not occur. I promise you this.

Even farmers will try to save a feral piglette for as long as possible. But, I live in Iowa. We pride ourselves in being able to be involved in the circle of life.

The story you were given and the assertion you make about Obama is one of two things: 1.) The story is a lie or misrepresentation, 2.) The story is true, but your interpretation of Obama's feelings, thoughts, statements or intentions are from a basic mistrust of the man.

Barb said...

My goo'ness, Anonymous.

The fact is, there is a Born alive Infant Protection Act. And Obama did most factually vote against it 4 times in his home state --if not in the senate.

There is no lie here --face the fact. Obama is a pro-abortion president who has voted to let infants die rather than interfere and try to save their lives if they survive abortions --and voted so 4 times.

There are nurses who tell of botched abortions --who have testified before Congress about being required to let such infants die unattended.

On his 3rd day in office he rescinded the Mexico City law that said (if I understand it correctly) that we tax payers would NOT fund overseas abortions in family clinics we provide for needy nations.

Finally, he promised to sign the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) which will nullify all the safeguards on abortion and clinics achieved --informed consent, parental notification, waiting periods, etc. He has rescinded ban on testing on embryos, I believe.

This law was not about saving babies who either are or are not born alive per se; Of course they try to save those babies like yours. It was about saving babies who survive abortion. He said, unequivocally, that the mother's right to abort meant the doctor and staff should let the baby die even if it were born alive. The majority disagreed with him--this is just one reason he is considered a pro-abortion president more liberal than any other in his voting record on abortion.

kateb said...

Anonymous - thank God your story had a happy ending. We've had some frightening experiences here too.

The worst nightmare of my life was when my twin grandsons were delivered, the first healthy and screaming - the second trapped, breech, in the birth canal. The lady who was in charge of the delivery just froze. She didn't know what to do.

A senior OB doctor finally showed up and delivered him (breech and past blue into gray) and he was just dead. He didn't breath - he didn't cry and he was just this little gray dead floppy baby and I didn't know what to do.

I put body between my son and his wife on the delivery table while they worked on him. I can't get past the nightmare of his little dead floppy body and the way that his limbs flopped while they worked on him and his little slack open mouth. It was just horrible.

I was so scared that my feet were hopping off the ground and I tore my stomach muscles in two places.

I couldn't look back at my son - and I didn't think he knew that his son had been born dead. I didn't know what to do so I just started to pray - just nonsense and gibberish. God help us, please don't let this baby have died. If this is your will - help me help my son.

And all the time my son and his wife were right behind my back having no idea this child was dead.

I prayed so hard that I started sweating (and hopping) - I just begged.

This little baby boy suddenly took a breath and his head turned pink. Then his chest and then his arms and legs.

It was quite a while until I heard his cry - but I will never forget it. He still has a rough voice - very similar to that first cry.

My soul exploded in joy. I ran out into the hallway and fell down. I absolutely know that God gave us mercy and saved this baby. And what a 3 year old he has turned out to be.

God is so good to us. He knows our true desires - the ones that make your feet hop off the ground and he is merciful to us in those true desires. Always.

And I am so glad you have had mercy in your life as well.

So it was written:

'Taking her by the hand he said to her, “Talitha cumi,” which means, “Little girl, I say to you, arise.”And immediately the girl got up.' (Mark 5:41-42)

Eric is now a very verbal and precocious three year old who is running his Momma and Daddy ragged.

God is good.

As a postscript I would say that these twins are beautiful little boys who would have fallen within the third trimester abortion act that our new President supports.

And that he would refuse them medical care if they had been born alive after abortion procedures.

I would also add that I think this is the act of a monster.

Barb said...

Quite a testimony, Kateb. Life and death --so close, yet so far apart --making all the difference. You should publish your account --in a devotional book somewhere --church newsletter, at least.