tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post3261666160494060148..comments2024-03-28T03:05:37.670-06:00Comments on The Barb Wire: Ben Stein on ChristmasBarbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-35853100573847252152008-12-22T15:03:00.000-06:002008-12-22T15:03:00.000-06:00I understand the cancellation of all the shows and...I understand the cancellation of all the shows and the reason behind it --it's exactly what anyone would feel like doing. You feel bad that you even planned a cantata --or a youth trip --or any church event if someone dies as a result of it or during it, en route to it, etc.<BR/><BR/>But the message of Christmas is hope in the face of death. <BR/><BR/>I say, the show should go on.<BR/><BR/>Again, however, I understand that their heart isn't in it --but on the other hand, the Christmas story is the greatest hope and comfort this family has.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-52086557866779474562008-12-22T11:25:00.000-06:002008-12-22T11:25:00.000-06:00Barb, A couple of observations.I disagree with you...Barb, A couple of observations.<BR/><BR/>I disagree with you that the shows should have gone on after the girl fell and died. This was done out of respect for her family and her memory.<BR/><BR/>I graduated high school in 1965, shortly after prayer in public schools was banned.<BR/><BR/>It seemed strange to go from praying at the beginning of school one year to not praying the next.<BR/><BR/>We had a new math teacher in our high school and somehow we found out she was a Christian. <BR/><BR/>Several of us approached her and asked if she would lead a Bible Club. She agreed and we met after school at her apartment once a week.<BR/><BR/>One of our unsaved friends started to attend and got saved. From then on she hung out with the Christian kids. Came from a rich and influential family too.<BR/><BR/>How did we discover this teacher was a Christian? She couldn't announce it, but somehow the Holy Spirit led us to her and she was only too happy to lead us in studying the Bible.<BR/><BR/>She got married that summer and moved on to her home town to be with her new husband. I often think of her.Jeanettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00099630003366955841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-91578214696959517182008-12-21T20:59:00.000-06:002008-12-21T20:59:00.000-06:00Hey, Kate, were you there? I didn't meet you.Hey, Kate, were you there? I didn't meet you.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-63681718811975895502008-12-20T22:12:00.000-06:002008-12-20T22:12:00.000-06:00God will provide. Just trust in him.God will provide. Just trust in him.katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-85799779967322533562008-12-20T19:34:00.000-06:002008-12-20T19:34:00.000-06:00Glad to hear your show went well. It is always sa...Glad to hear your show went well. It is always satisfying to overcome some adversity and put on a good performance.<BR/><BR/>I also had a gig last night, although the musical selections were secular.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, winter gigs multiply the inconveniences and stuff that can go wrong. Loading out P.A. at 1AM or 2AM in freezing cold and four inches of slush is not my favorite part of the job.<BR/><BR/>I've played plenty of winter gigs sick, too. Fortunately, my vocal contributions are not something anyone would miss. I'll be good so long as a bug doesn't come along that impairs finger movements.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-59388320328649518642008-12-20T15:57:00.000-06:002008-12-20T15:57:00.000-06:00It turned out that another soprano had complete la...It turned out that another soprano had complete laryngitis. We hope she's better --she's in a quartet that needed her.<BR/><BR/>Every year, it's a challenge keeping all the singers on their feet! free of the bugs going around. <BR/><BR/>And the weather, too, poses a challenge to director and pastor --no one wants to be responsible for people coming out and getting in accidents.<BR/><BR/>Wasn't that sad and awful about the young lady from Sylvania who fell from the cable --and they canceled 10 performances.<BR/><BR/>You know, I would have felt like canceling the performances --but I think that would be Satan's victory --and that the show should go on. While their hearts wouldn't be in it --nevertheless, the message is what the world needs --that Jesus really did come to save us from sin and DEATH! <BR/><BR/>Do these programs incline anyone to turn his life around --or just entertain and inspire the believers? I know we got at least one new couple last year who first came to our cantata at my husband's invitation. Said they had not been in church for 25 years.<BR/><BR/>It has to help if people learn that church may not be as boring as they remembered it from youth.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-85007656208387054142008-12-20T15:44:00.000-06:002008-12-20T15:44:00.000-06:00God answered prayers --her throat improved --She d...God answered prayers --her throat improved --She did the solo and it was lovely --but she did more of the directing so her sis could take her place with the sopranos more of the time.<BR/><BR/>Be sure to introduce yourself afterwards! <BR/><BR/>Don and Steve and Mudly --you should come and bring your wives for a delightful time. Mudrake could look for things to make fun of for his blog!Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-39184322398619324782008-12-20T12:00:00.000-06:002008-12-20T12:00:00.000-06:00My daughter had her first experience with a girl c...My daughter had her first experience with a girl carrying a bookbag with a pentagram on it at the bus stop. <BR/><BR/>In public schools they don't want to 'offend' practicing Wiccans by having an opinion on their display of Satanic signs. But if you say then why would you prohibit a Christian from displaying Christians signs or engaging in prayer - they get a blank look.<BR/><BR/>Not offend Christians? It's such a foreign idea to them that it strikes them speechless.<BR/><BR/>And we're planning to see the Cantata tomorrow night. Soprano or no soprano!katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-45162676282990325102008-12-19T15:38:00.000-06:002008-12-19T15:38:00.000-06:00It's really a heavy booted gov't that comes to you...It's really a heavy booted gov't that comes to your town and says you can't have prayer at school events anymore --at least not without getting all the kids to vote for it and initiate it --you can't have representative clergy present holy books anymore to the grads acc'g to their religions. You can pray but not in Jesus' name. Heavy booted gov't that tells a senior valedictorian that he can't speak of his faith in Jesus Christ in his speech --that kids can't wear pro-hetero t-shirts when the school is allowing pro-gay t-shirts. That tells the kids they can wear a Brittany Spears t-shirt but not a Jesus Christ t-shirt. they can make demonic looking art but not religious themed art. They can't do a termpaper on a religious theme. The employee can't have a Bible on his desk or wear a cross necklace or his yarmulka.<BR/><BR/>So many nutty cases around the country....<BR/><BR/>Religion clause blog (on my blog roll) is full of them.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-14188609683226772552008-12-19T15:31:00.000-06:002008-12-19T15:31:00.000-06:00The school is the place where people learn stuff t...The school is the place where people learn stuff that's so --that's true --knowledge --history--what's what and who's who. One might think you could learn what's right and wrong in school.<BR/><BR/>But religion is something else?<BR/><BR/>I don't ask that public schools be Christian schools per se --but they all were in the beginning of this nation. There wasn't this wall between school/church/home. There was a unified world view. <BR/>I understand that we don't have that anymore --so that's why we really need school choice and vouchers.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-29063156223928799822008-12-19T15:21:00.000-06:002008-12-19T15:21:00.000-06:00My gripe about "government-run" schools is that th...My gripe about "government-run" schools is that the government forgets that it is US --that gov't governs by the consent of the governed. <BR/><BR/>And thus gov't has no business denying the free exercise of religion to the people --because of minority differences in religion.<BR/><BR/>I don't think extraordinary accommodations should be made, however, for new immigrant religions --where we are having 5 prayer times a day and foot-washing stations --where we would have excessive numbers of days off as holidays for religious reasons. They come here for religious freedom, prosperity, opportunity --"so come to us as we are --don't try to make us like where you came from."Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-91307773455426459552008-12-19T15:14:00.000-06:002008-12-19T15:14:00.000-06:00You are a reasonable liberal, I think, Don --I don...You are a reasonable liberal, I think, Don --I don't think all liberals are. <BR/><BR/>I see the hostility toward Christianity growing in America; you see the mega churches. <BR/><BR/>In Arissa, India, 70,000 Christians have been displaced from their homes by Hindu terrorists. <BR/><BR/>My lawyer friend from India tells me that the Bombay/Mumbai terrorism is unceasing (he lives there) --and that they are out to get Americans and Brits especially.<BR/><BR/>The Somalia persecution is Muslims against Christians.<BR/><BR/>In Iran and any middle eastern country, Christians live in fear for their lives. The persecution of the Christians in No. Korea is brutal. See Voice of the Martyrs website for details.<BR/><BR/>People are being beaten for proselytizing and for worshipping Christ --as we speak --somewhere in the world. The Muslims tried to make an anti-religious defamation law pass in the UN --such that it would be a crime to say anything against a religion--or to proselytize --as I understand it.<BR/><BR/>If Christianity doesn't prevail in the US as a majority faith, I predict we will cease to be the greatest place on earth to live. We will become increasingly lawless as our families become more fragmented.<BR/><BR/>SAY, DON, IT'S TIME TO GET READY FOR THE CANTATA! 7 PM AT THE HFM Church behind (north of ) spring meadows mall on Angola Road. Tonight and Sunday night. Unfortunately, one of the good soloists/sopranos has lost her voice nearly --so we won't be full strength.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-49725680065071651922008-12-19T14:17:00.000-06:002008-12-19T14:17:00.000-06:00"No school receiving a voucher should teach terror...<EM>"No school receiving a voucher should teach terrorism. Can we not agree to this??"</EM><BR/><BR/>Yes, Barb, I think we can agree to that. <BR/><BR/>We can also agree to not use taxpayer dollars to erect a monument to Adolph Hitler on the front steps of our nation's capital.<BR/><BR/><EM>"NOw about the case you doubted, Don, here are the facts.<BR/><BR/>Go to www.ADFTruthandTriumph.org to see a video of these "Praying Parents."</EM><BR/><BR/>I didn't "doubt" the case. I said I would not discuss it without citations so I could read about it myself. Maybe it's a lawyer hang-up, but I don't think much of anecdotal accounts of court cases.<BR/><BR/>I'll take a look at the link. <BR/><BR/><EM>"Going back to your former "research"..."</EM><BR/><BR/>Why do you put "research" in quotes? That is what REAL research looks like, Barb. Referring directly to source documents, like the complaint actually filed in court, to find out who the plaintiffs are and the claims they are raising. Referring to direct quotes from the plaintiffs describing their motivations. I guess that's kind of nerdy, and not as much fun as wild speculation and automatically assuming the worst about people, but that's how I roll.<BR/><BR/><EM>"There is a way to teach the course without being evangelistic about it --but there are many people who object to teaching it at all."</EM><BR/><BR/>Maybe so. But imagining what might be is quite a bit different from discovering what is actually taking place. Again, you assume, <EM>a priori</EM>, that these plaintiffs are illegitimate Christians with unscrupulous motivations. Based on what evidence, I have no idea. At any rate, I am not going to re-argue <EM>Moreno</EM> with you. Anyone who might be interested can follow the links to those old threads. <EM>Res ipsa loquitor</EM>, I say.<BR/><BR/><EM>"...who is the gov't of the school?? Elected reps of the public. The gov't doesn't "run" the school or own it. We, the People, do."</EM><BR/><BR/>What sort of false distinction are you attempting to make here? Our ENTIRE government -- federal, state, and local -- is populated entirely by American citizens. That includes public school employees. Is there some branch of government I am unaware of that is run by foreign citizens?<BR/><BR/><EM>"I'll be shocked if ACLU is very often really involved in defending Christian civil liberties."</EM><BR/><BR/>Well, they do. How hard are you looking?<BR/><BR/><EM>"...they are much more interested in Jefferson's phrase, "Separation of church and state" --sanitizing the public square of all mention and memory of the Christian religion."</EM><BR/><BR/>If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. "Separation of church and state" does not mean "sanitizing the public square of all mention and memory of the Christian religion." This is nonsensical hyperbole.<BR/><BR/>How can we have religious liberty if the government plays favorites among religions, elevating one at the expense of others?<BR/><BR/>I submit to you that the separation of church and state is in large part why Americans enjoy such a high degree of religious liberty. Keep the gubmint out of the jeebus, and the jeebus out of the gubmint, and everyone is free to find their own path toward (or away from) God. <BR/><BR/><EM>"Everything is justified for SELF..."</EM><BR/><BR/>Well, maybe these criticisms are better targeted at materialist capitalism, rather than the ACLU or so-called "secularists."<BR/><BR/><EM>"...but thousands, millions of children are growing up without Biblical knowledge or faith --no sense of a God to acknoweldge or fear in a proper sense. And no sense of accountability to a God who defines good and evil..."</EM><BR/><BR/>No doubt. And, I suspect this is why you'd like to see school prayer, bible class and the ten commandments posted in public schools. Maybe you have the very best of intentions, but public school is not the place to win hearts and minds for Christ. <BR/><BR/><EM>"It's too bad that some kids with very troubled lives will not learn that there is a God who loves and forgives them --who asks them to be loving and forgiving in return. Who tells them what is right and wrong and gives guidance for their lives."</EM><BR/><BR/>Again, maybe you are right. However, that is the role of parents and churches, not public schoolteachers. It is not the role of government to lead the horse to water.<BR/><BR/><EM>"I do expect the school to respect the idea of God in the minds of the children and do nothing to undermine it."</EM><BR/><BR/>I expect that too. Government officials, including schoolteachers and other school officials, have no business prescribing what is correct or incorrect in matters of religious conscience. <BR/><BR/><EM>"I do expect public school kids to know what Christmas and Easter are about --and to know that our Thanksgiving Feast was a thanksgiving to God for His blessings. I expect educated americans to know about the Bible and Biblical events/history."</EM><BR/><BR/>I agree. An educated American should know these things.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-22275467263901786442008-12-19T13:11:00.000-06:002008-12-19T13:11:00.000-06:00"Anyhoo - does anybody remember the Ben Stein show...<EM>"Anyhoo - does anybody remember the Ben Stein show?"</EM><BR/><BR/>I remember "Win Ben Stein's Money" on Comedy Central...enjoyable game show.<BR/><BR/>That was the late 1990's, as I recall.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-11002653046196421472008-12-19T13:07:00.000-06:002008-12-19T13:07:00.000-06:00NOw about the case you doubted, Don, here are the ...NOw about the case you doubted, Don, here are the facts.<BR/><BR/>Go to www.ADFTruthandTriumph.org to see a video of these "Praying Parents."<BR/><BR/>They have met as a group for 10 years in school cafeteria at Lakeview Elem. in a Nashville suburb, Mt. Juliet. They prayed out of view of students, once a month, for students and staff, etc.<BR/><BR/>The ACLU also sued to rid the school of the See You at the Pole prayer meeting --which is not gov't run and the National Day of prayer observance on school property, not gov't run, and religious music in concerts.<BR/><BR/>The ACLU lost this case.<BR/><BR/>Here's a question for you: who is the gov't of the school?? Elected reps of the public. The gov't doesn't "run" the school or own it. We, the People, do. Gov't may not authorize a prayer event as a school --but they ought not deprive the people of their free exercise of religion --as long as that exercise is not disruptive to the school day, teacher time, etc. and not coercive. A public prayer at a school event like a graduation does not force anyone to acknowledge God or to pray. It asks Divine Providence to guide and protect the graduates all of their days. Only a Grinch could object --and that's the ACLU --GRinchy. <BR/><BR/>You are right that the law says the prayers may be given if student initiated --but there are all kinds of legal quibblings everyyear --and I'll be shocked if ACLU is very often really involved in defending Christian civil liberties. they are much more interested in Jefferson's phrase, "Separation of church and state" --sanitizing the public square of all mention and memory of the Christian religion.<BR/><BR/>You talk of the big influence Christianity still holds in our nation--but thousands, millions of children are growing up without Biblical knowledge or faith --no sense of a God to acknoweldge or fear in a proper sense. And no sense of accountability to a God who defines good and evil --and thus they have a weak sense of what is right and wrong. Everything is justified for SELF --what can I get away with. Self-esteem is the high value of the public education system--doing what is best for me. Often what is best is also what is RIGHT -but that's not how devious young minds think. What is best is what advantages ME, Period. <BR/><BR/>It's too bad that some kids with very troubled lives will not learn that there is a God who loves and forgives them --who asks them to be loving and forgiving in return. Who tells them what is right and wrong and gives guidance for their lives.<BR/><BR/>I don't expect public school to do all that --but I do expect the school to respect the idea of God in the minds of the children and do nothing to undermine it. I do expect public school kids to know what Christmas and Easter are about --and to know that our Thanksgiving Feast was a thanksgiving to God for His blessings. I expect educated americans to know about the Bible and Biblical events/history. <BR/><BR/>Jay Leno expected it, too, in his Jay Walks.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-13933667602982120732008-12-19T12:30:00.000-06:002008-12-19T12:30:00.000-06:00Don --Wahabi Islam is not just another religion. ...Don --Wahabi Islam is not just another religion. This is the one that says the Christians and Jews are pigs and monkeys and teaches hatred and violence and the ultimate world control by Islam. This is the one that fosters terrorism and centers in Saudi Arabia --where they publish textbooks used around the world in Islamic schools that were objectionable and used in the elite school for Muslims here in Wash. D.C. --whose valedictorian was prosecuted for a plot against Bush's life. When asked to remove the objectionable portions of the book, they just moved them to different pages. This was all in the Blade.<BR/><BR/>No school receiving a voucher should teach terrorism. Can we not agree to this?? That's the only problem I see with vouchers --is that the Satanists who theoretically exalt evil and the Islamic terrorists would educate kids on the public dollar. These are children who need to learn a bit about Christian charity and individual human worth --human rights--and good character traits of western culture.<BR/><BR/>Going back to your former "research" on the Texas case to which I alluded previously, you referred to Catholics, Presbyterians and others who brought the suit with the ACLU against a school teaching a Bible as lit class, they thought evangelistically -- <BR/><BR/>There is a way to teach the course without being evangelistic about it --but there are many people who object to teaching it at all. There are a lot of Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Catholics who are liberal --not orthodox believers --who do not share with other Christians the belief that the Bible is the inspired Word of God --or even an accurate history of anything. They would teach about it in a way to undermine orthodox faith. There is less difference between them and agnostics and atheists --than there is between them and evangelicals, Texas-style.<BR/>These nominal christians make good members of the ACLU because they share their views.<BR/><BR/>I've seen too many cases of the ACLU being on the wrong side of the fence --clearly so. They won't get a nickel of mine --nor do they bother to ask! I never get on their mailing list.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-19061918627939001472008-12-19T11:12:00.000-06:002008-12-19T11:12:00.000-06:00Aha....okey dokey then. That was fun.Anyhoo - does...Aha....okey dokey then. That was fun.<BR/><BR/>Anyhoo - does anybody remember the Ben Stein show?katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-27926408930529812602008-12-19T09:12:00.000-06:002008-12-19T09:12:00.000-06:00"...Schools used to have prayer to start school da..."...Schools used to have prayer to start school days, before banquets and ball games..."<BR/><BR/>That's right. PUBLIC schools, run by the government. Here's the problem: Many Christians, such as yourself, want to use government institutions to advance Christianity at the expense of other religions and non-religion. Well, the Establishment Clause does not permit you to do that.<BR/><BR/>Christianity is ubiquitous in this country, with 700-plus denominations and sub-denominations. There is probably nowhere on Earth with a greater abundance and diversity of Christian worship. There are "mega-churches" packed to capacity, many with enough members to fill an arena. There are television channels and radio networks devoted entirely to Christianity. Every bookstore I've visited has a special aisle (or two) specifically devoted to Christian interest. The Christian right is arguably the most pandered-to political interest group in the country. And, quite frankly, one cannot get elected to high office in this country without loudly, publicly declaring Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.<BR/><BR/>So, I just have to chuckle when I hear Christians complain that they're being "run out of the public square," or they're not "allowed" to express themselves publicly.<BR/><BR/>Christianity occupies quite a bit of the "public square." Why do you feel the need to turn every public school event into a quasi-religious ceremony?<BR/><BR/><EM>"Atheism is the favored belief system of the ACLU and they won't rest until atheism prevails in the public square, when we conduct life as though there is no<BR/>God."</EM><BR/><BR/>Nonsense. We've had this conversation numerous times before, and I've attempted to explain to you the difference between the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause, and the ACLU's position on both. However, I think you are simply too reluctant to give up your favorite "atheist" whipping boy. <BR/><BR/>Opposing GOVERNMENT support of religion is simply NOT the same thing as opposing religion altogether. As i've attempted to demonstrate to you in the past, the ACLU opposes government encroachments on religious exercise with the same vigor as it opposes government sponsorship of religion.<BR/><BR/>These are not "rare" or isolated cases, but rather a central part of the ACLU's work.<BR/><BR/><EM>"In fact, I just read about a school in the south..."</EM><BR/><BR/>I am not going to respond to your uncited anecdotal cases. As we both know, you have a <A HREF="http://thebarbwire.blogspot.com/2007/05/aclu-opposes-bible-as-lit-in-schools.html" REL="nofollow">history</A> of misrepresenting (apparently, through negligence) the facts of cases to support your portrayal of the ACLU as a dastardly atheistic villain, and I've had to <A HREF="https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1526647904385272392&postID=6275057244671925572" REL="nofollow">set the record straight</A>. <BR/><BR/><EM>"...the ACLU thinks it would be better to conform the majority to the minority and have no prayer."</EM><BR/><BR/>The ACLU's position is not "no" prayer. Rather, prayer cannot be school-sponsored or led by school officials. <BR/><BR/>Okay, here we go:<BR/><BR/><EM>"The only problem I see with vouchers is the possibility that the Wahabi Muslim schools might form and seek gov't support..."</EM><BR/><BR/>Religion in public schools is oh so wonderful until its SOMEONE ELSE'S religion. If you don't want your government used to advance Islam, then you shouldn't be seeking to use it to advance Christianity.<BR/><BR/>Why can you not understand this?Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949277110519169919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-64013425760297215832008-12-18T22:03:00.000-06:002008-12-18T22:03:00.000-06:00The only problem I see with vouchers is the possib...The only problem I see with vouchers is the possibility that the Wahabi Muslim schools might form and seek gov't support --and I'd rather see those kids mainstreamed in the American melding pot that American public ed. used to be --in the good ol' days before the public school thought it had to cultivate atheism, secularism, multi-culturalism--at the expense of our noblest cultural aspects.<BR/><BR/>"School days, school days, dear old golden rule days...."Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-83303066501284093572008-12-18T21:59:00.000-06:002008-12-18T21:59:00.000-06:00Yes, and the parents deserve vouchers to help peop...Yes, and the parents deserve vouchers to help people of modest means attend. School choice.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-74361956624498074912008-12-18T21:52:00.000-06:002008-12-18T21:52:00.000-06:00post script - and these schools are growing rapidl...post script - and these schools are growing rapidly.katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-26827841699799043802008-12-18T21:51:00.000-06:002008-12-18T21:51:00.000-06:00Ah but where my children went to school they start...Ah but where my children went to school they started the day with prayer. They had Bible study once a week and it was a graded class.<BR/><BR/>They said the pledge of allegiance and corporal punishment was on the list of remedies :-)<BR/><BR/>All of the kids they've graduated (save one that was married) went to college.<BR/><BR/>My children fortunately never wound up in that kind of trouble in school but real school, (versus the liberal indoctrination camps - public schools) still exist.katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-53809861264302115692008-12-18T21:45:00.000-06:002008-12-18T21:45:00.000-06:00Where've you been, Don? Schools used to have pray...Where've you been, Don? Schools used to have prayer to start school days, before banquets and ball games --as in the south --and the ACLU has threatened everybody who does this --threatened schools for graduation prayers and clergy participation that used to be common with the ministerial ass'n passing out holy books to the kids according to their religion at a school baccalaureate service. <BR/><BR/>Coaches now have to be careful about praying with their students. Why? Because someone in the minority will have to own his minority status, dare to be different if he refuses to pray in his own way at the same time --so the ACLU thinks it would be better to conform the majority to the minority and have no prayer. <BR/><BR/>Religious traditions of the military and their chaplains have been targeted by the ACLU lately. Atheism is the favored belief system of the ACLU and they won't rest until atheism prevails in the public square, when we conduct life as though there is no <BR/>God. <BR/><BR/>Instead of counseling kids in schools to comfort them with religious faith when someone dies, what do grief counselors do?? No talk of Heaven--just memories, I guess --sharing your feelings of grief. Big help.<BR/><BR/>We hear of school districts where Hanakkuh and Ramadan get discussed and almost celebrated while Christianity is taboo --where Christmas and Easter have to be totally secularized. <BR/><BR/>In fact, I just read about a school in the south where these 5 "praying parents" prevailed in a case over the ACLU --to my surprise. The Aclu wanted to stop their on campus prayer meetings, the See you at the pole annual prayer event, the National Day of Prayer Observance and all religious music in the school.<BR/><BR/>The whole town and even the local gov't (co. commissioners?) came out in support of the parents.<BR/>This is exceptional --not the rule these days.<BR/><BR/>Except for the school music, these were all voluntary, non-school sponsored events but on public property. <BR/><BR/>We are all the tax-paying public --and if we want to exercise our religious faith in prayer on public grounds, we feel that's a constitutional right. I remember when Toledo tried to bar an Easter Sunrise service from being held in a public park.<BR/><BR/>We are constantly having to fight these battles with people of the ACLU mentality.<BR/><BR/>That some chapters of the ACLU still do good work, I'm pleased when I hear of rare cases. Mostly, they are out to strip America of her public expressions of religious faith.<BR/><BR/>they must hate that Wash. D.C. Christmas concert that the pres and wife always attend annually. It was on recently and so Christ-honoring.I thought it was in the national cathedral --but laura said something about a national museum. Is it renamed?Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05016832868807957194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-90665266294577202392008-12-18T18:39:00.000-06:002008-12-18T18:39:00.000-06:00My best guess is, these "ideas" come from the fert...<EM>My best guess is, these "ideas" come from the fertile imagination of Ben Stein (if he is indeed the author of this piece).</EM><BR/><BR/>I think a more accurate picture of what stein is complaining about is the idea that does exist is notion that we should be publicly secular country assuming (which is a huge assumption in the popular culture) that religion is a private matter.Rob Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937716910001145836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1526647904385272392.post-67148858557526252932008-12-18T14:56:00.000-06:002008-12-18T14:56:00.000-06:00Commenting on the shoe incident. What a strange co...Commenting on the shoe incident. What a strange combination of reactions people have had.<BR/><BR/>One person was incensed at my reaction and screamed "IT WAS AN INSULT!!"<BR/><BR/>Well, it's an insult if your an Iraqi.<BR/><BR/>If you're an American and the shoes miss - it's hysterically funny.<BR/><BR/>Cultural insults are just that - cultural.<BR/><BR/>In OUR culture when a grown person loses their marbles and starts throwing their shoes...it's just funny.katebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421985130851337710noreply@blogger.com